Posted on 04/26/2002 9:01:52 AM PDT by WhatNot
Have a Blessed & Holy Spirit Filled Weekend
I think we too often consider "communion" something we do rather than someplace we are..:>)) Have a Blessed day
This is so foundational to our lives. This "world" and its god want so much to rip us off from the victorious and abundant life that is ours through Christ Jesus. The broken bread also symbolizes His broken body (I Cor.11: 24); He paid the price, He is the propitiation . . . let us be glad and thankful for HIM.
"In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you."
Ya'll are the best 'cause it's CHRIST IN YOU! the hope of glory.
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NOTE: THIS IS AN EXCERPT FROM A SELF-CONFRONTATIONAL COURSE THAT I AM CURRENTLY STUDYING, THIS PAGE SHOULD BE READ, FROM THE BOTTOM, TO THE TOP, I HOPE YOU ENJOY IT.
() REALIZE ABUNDANT LIFE, FILLED WITH GOD'S PEACE AND JOY (John 10:10, 14:27, 15:11, 16:33)
() Experience Christlike character development through God's Spirit working within you (2Corinthians 3:18; Galatians 5:22-23)
() Rejoice always (Philippans 4:4; 1Thessalonians 5:18) and for all things (Ephesians 5:20)
() Pray unceasingly about everything (Philippians 4:6-7; 1Thessalonians 5:17)
() Speak the truth in love(Ephesians 4:15; Colossians 3:9)
() Work heartily as unto the LordEphesians 6:7; Colossians 3:23-24)
() Do everything without grumbling or disputing(Philippans 2:14)
() Continually live in a manner consistent with your calling in Christ(Ephesians 4:1)
() Count all trials as joy since God uses your trials to develop Christlike character in you (Romans 5:3-5, 8:28-29; James 1:2-4)
() Practice forgiveness and reconciliation(Matthew 5:23-24, 6:14; Mark 11:25-26; Ephesians 4:32; Colossians 3:12-13) and return a blessing for any evil you might receive from others (Romans 12:17-21; 1Peter 3:8-9)
() Continually show deeds appropriate to repentance (Luke 3:8; Acts 26:20; Revelation 2:5; 3:3, 19)
() Be compassionate, kind, humble, gentle, and patient (Colossians 3:12)
() Learn to love God's way (John 3:16, 15:17; Romans 5:8; 1 Corinthians 13:4-8a; 1 John 4:11, 19)
() Dwell in your thoughts on what is true, honorable, right, pure, lovely, of good repute, excellent, praiseworthy(Philippians 4:8-9) and set your mind on things above instead of on things that are on earth(Colossians 3:2)
() Regard others as more important than yourself, as did Jesus(Philippians 2:3-8)
() Continually judge yourself biblically (Matthew 7:5; 1Corinthians 11:31)
() Be controlled by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 5:18-20)and the Word of God (Psalm 119:11; Colossians 3:16)
() Be obedient to the Word out of your love for the Lord (John 14:15, 21)
() Commit your ways to God unreservedly (Proverbs 3:5-8; Matthew 22:37; 2Corinthians 5:9; Colossians 3:17) and deny self to follow Jesus(Matthew 10:24-26; Luke 9:23-24)
() In faith, pray for wisdom in all matters (James1:5-8)
() Repent (Proverbs 9:6, 28:13; Acts26:20; 2Corinthians 7:9-11; Revelation 2:5)
() Confess specific, recognized sins (Psalm 51:1-4, 6-10, 17; James 5:16; 1John 1:9)
BIBLICAL
CHANGE
AFFECTS
YOUR
THOUGHTS,
WORDS
AND
ACTIONS
Living God's way means putting away your selfcenteredness and committing yourself to follow God's Word in spite of any feelings to the contrary (based on Psalm 1:1-3; Matthew 7:13-14; Luke 9:23; Galatians 5:17) If you do this , God will bless you (based on John 14:27, 15:11; Galatians 5:22-23; James 1:25).
John 6
52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"
53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.
58 This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever."
59 This he said in the synagogue, as he taught at Caper'na-um.
60 Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?"
61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, "Do you take offense at this?
62 Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
64 But there are some of you that do not believe." For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him.
65 And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."
66 After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.
67 Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also wish to go away?"
68 Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life;
Ignatius was a disciple of John, who wrote the Gospel passage above. Here is his early Christian understanding of Eucharist
Ignatius, bishop of Antioch, a disciple of John, a Christian writing around 110 ad, less than 80 years after the death of Christ, was very clear:
CHAPTER VII.--LET US STAND ALOOF FROM SUCH HERETICS.
They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect, that they also might rise again. It is fitting, therefore, that ye should keep aloof from such persons, and not to speak of them either in private or in public, but to give heed to the prophets, and above all, to the Gospel, in which the passion[of Christ] has been revealed to us, and the resurrection has been fully proved. But avoid all divisions, as the beginning of evils.
CHAPTER VIII.--LET NOTHING BE DONE WITHOUT THE BISHOP.
See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery [priests] as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is[administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.
This is a wonderful verse. It is obviously metaphorical.
1.Sacrificial meal. The Passover consisted of both a sacrifice and a meal, and was the most important of all the sacrificial meals. A lamb was sacrificed as an atonement for sin. The lamb was then roasted and eaten at a meal with unleavened bread. Ex 12:8-10 "For Christ our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast...but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth." 1Cor 5:7b-8
2.Seal of the covenant. As a commemoration, Passover was also an affirming of the covenant between God and Israel, strengthening of the allegiance. Jesus speaks of the cup as a sign of the covenant, which was about to be ratified through his sacrificial death "This cup is the new covenant in my blood" Lk 22:19
3.Bread and wine. According to ancient Jewish records, near the end of the Passover meal, the head of the company would take the cake of unleavened bread and pronounce these words- "This is the bread of misery which our fathers ate in the land of Egypt." Christ substituted for these words, the words of institution "This is my body, broken for you.." Then the cup was filled the third time and raised to God in thanksgiving. It was called by the Jews, the cup of blessing, the same term that Paul uses to refer to the communion cup.
To those of us that do not see it as the actual body in substance we see it as a Holy moment of the sealing of the New Covenant..
OT covenants were sealed with meals..
Mar 14:24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
The listeners knew how a covenant was cut..as can anyone chosing to take the time to study the OT
Two of them were making a feast Gen 26:30 , and by offering a sacrifice Gen 15:9-17; Jer 34:18,19 were two of the methods..
They also would have understood Jesus saying that He was the Bread of Life..(Manna...that came down from heaven)John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
unlike the Jews in the desert that had to gather manna everyday to live,He was also sent from heaven..but they would never hunger again.
John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
They understood the comparison he was making ...
And someday the saints will share that meal
Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth [it].
It is holy to all of us!
Obviously, the passage from John that Dr. Kopp quoted showed that the Jews to whom he was speaking, and some of his disciples, were stunned by his words and
60 Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?"61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, "Do you take offense at this?
62 Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
64 But there are some of you that do not believe." For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him.
So, basically, many disciples didn't believe Jesus' words but he didn't clarify his meaning by saying, "I meant this as a blessing" or "this is a symbol of my body" but instead reiterated His words, and many disciples left, not being about to accept His words.
To me, the Holy Eucharist is the most important and explicit and obvious Sacrament handed down from God after Baptism. Through Baptism, we die with Jesus so that we may share eternal life with Him. Through the Holy Eucharist, we share Jesus' life weekly or daily to bring us closer to Him.
God bless.
(Anyway, the Lord specifically said that He used metaphors to trip up his enemies. So, we need to be very, very careful--lest we be discovered on the wrong side!)
And remember: Jesus specifically warned us about His use of metaphor. It is not more spiritual to take Him literally when anyone can see that He was being metaphorical.
Understanding it as metaphor does not diminish its spirituality. In fact, it sharpens the ceremony's spirituality--by forcing us to think about what it does mean. What it means is that unless you are in a supernatural union with Christ through regeneration, by which regeneration you will once and for all appreciate His true humanity (flesh like yours) and his Godhood (the Life of His Blood), you are lost.
And of course, a lot of people who desperately try to affirm the RC dogma are not regenerate. They are trying to affirm what they do not really believe concerning the hypostatic union of God and man in Christ any more than they believe that the elements are magically transformed into literal flesh and literal blood.
My point is that affirming something does not make it true and does not even mean that one really believes it. In fact, desperately affirming something which a person does not, indeed, cannot believe just makes that person a hypocrite.
As a doctor, I assure you that the bread is just bread and the wine is just wine. The issues of interest are in the soul of the partaker, not in the hocus-pocus of RC dogma. And I have enough respect for podiatrists to know that at some level below your stubbornness, you already realize that I am correct.
What is amusing here is that the term hocus-pocus is a derogatory slur against the words of consecration of the mass, made up by the "reformers" who created the lines of thinking you mindlessly repeat here.
And I have enough respect for podiatrists to know
Thank you for your patronizing words. May God Bless you abundantly.
that at some level below your stubbornness, you already realize that I am correct
My belief in the Real Presence is as strong as my belief in Christ Himself. That to you may be scandalous. But I believe that you are not only incorrect but that your error is the cause of the damnation of some who at one time embraced the Truth then fled, following false gospels like those of the reformation. You of course are probably blameless in holding your error, but that makes your position no less wrong.
That's my point exactly.
Think about that one, Doctor. It's precisely why I asserted that you don't believe that the bread and wine are really transformed--no matter what you confess. You can't believe it, try as you might. You just believe that we are supposed to confess that the elements are magically transformed.
But saying things doesn't count. Lipservice, according to Christ Himself, is not faith. And yet you assume that by saying this in obedience to the RCC, you will be in God's favor. You believe that by saying this in defiance of the sanctified common sense of sound hermeneutics, you will be terribly spiritual.
Anyway, that's the Protestant take. It explains what you pointed out about the historical origins of our hand Protestant word "hocus pocus."
(P.S. Protestantism is wonderfully liberating. It extricates a sinner from an awful lot of bizarre and confusing hypocrisies. Come over, and we will receive you as a brother, indeed!)
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