Posted on 04/06/2002 12:38:05 AM PST by P-Marlowe
New Lambert Dolphin bump.
In their final rejection of the Messiah, God has cut them off from His promises and has given the fulfillment of His promises to those who repent and believe. Galatians deals with this very extensively. The New Covenant has come. The Old has passed away. The unconditional Covenant made with Abraham is being fulfilled daily when sinners repent and turn to God in faith.
There are some serious questions you must ask yourself. I once believed as you did. I was steeped in "rightly dividing the word." My theme song was, "My hope is built on nothing less, than Scofield's notes and references." But God in His grace and mercy opened my eyes. And I pray He does the same for you. You make God to be a bigamist (or worse yet a fornicator) if you hold to your beliefs - married to a wife Israel and have another bride the church (or worse yet, a mistress). You may not state that openly but your belief carried to it's logical conclusion states that.
I implore you to search the Scriptures without your precious dispensational outline and let God speak to your heart. You can come to only one conclusion when you read Galatians, and Romans and the Gospels. God is finished dealing with natural Israel and now focuses His love and attention on his Birde, the church. Why is that so hard for you dispensationalists to see? Why do you keep harping back to Old Testament conditional promises? Why can't you see that God is finished dealing with a specific nation and now deals with all nations without discrimination? Why can't you let the New Testament interpret the Old Testament? Why do you continue to love the shadow when the substance has come? Why do you continue to not give Christ His proper place as Husband to His Bride, the Church.? Why do you continue to hold preference to national Israel over the New Testament chruch, God's true chosen ones?
By this definition, it is clear that since I have the same faith as Abraham, I must, therefore, be a Jew! This is why dispensationalism is so thoroughly anti-biblical and heretical and truly ~is~ the reason the historical Christian faith had never thought of this concept in it's first 1800 years of existence.
Jean
Do you see the hand of GOD in the restoration of Israel? If so, how?
This is true up to a point. There is such a thing in this dispensation as a racial Jew (1Cor.10:32)
When the Jews rejected both the Kingdom of God and Heaven as offered by Christ, the Kingdom was given to a new 'nation' the Church (Matt.22:23) and the Kingdom of Heaven (the literal, physical reign of Christ on earth) held in waiting until the new 'mystery'(Eph.3:3) body(Eph.1:28) could be completed. (Rom.11:25)
When Christ returns He will write the law on their hearts so they will be both spiritual and racial Jews (Heb.8:8, Jer.31:31)
I agree with everything else you said. The best work on the subject is George N.Peters, The Theocratic Kingdom (3Vol.)
How about Heb.8:8-13, Rom.11:1,11,26-27, Rev 7:4-8 (where the 144,000 are sealed, 12,000 each from the 12 tribes of Israel
You are a spiritual Jew in that you followed the faith of Abraham (Gal.3:29) All those, both Jew and Gentile who believe in this dispensation are now one in Christ (Gal.3:27-28)
That will change when the Church is Raptured out (1Thess.4,1Cor.15) the divisions return to either saved or unsaved Jew or Gentile.
This is why dispensationalism is so thoroughly anti-biblical and heretical and truly ~is~ the reason the historical Christian faith had never thought of this concept in it's first 1800 years of existence.
Actually, the first three centuries was at least Premillennial, if not strongly dispensational. It was only with Augustine in the 4th century (and his rejection of literal interpretation) that Amillennialism began to dominate the Church.
NO, a thousand times no. I see the Zionists hands in the restoration of natural Israel not God's. He never promised to restore them in New Testament times.
Well, there you go again with two kingdoms. Can't you understand that there is but one Kingdom referred to as the Kingdom of Heaven/God?? You stated once that Matthew used only the term Kingdom of Heaven. Maybe you should check your Scriptures. See Matthew 19: 23 & 24. He uses both terms interchangeably. Now note Luke 18:24 & 25 - Luke uses only the Kingdom of God to state the same thing Matthew stated. Buddy you are going in circles.
There is but one Kingdom and it was instituted at the first advent of Christ and the Jews of that generation that did not repent and believe missed it. And those of this generation that do not repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ will miss it's comsumation at the second advent of Christ.
As to Hebrews 8: 8-13 - Wow, you don't get it do you? The writer is stating that is exactly what is happening at that time. He is quoting Jeremiah 31 as proof of the fulfillment of the promise. They were living at the exact time that the old covenant was passing away and the new covenant was instituted.
As to Romans 11:1, 11 - Paul is right, not all Israel was rejected. Individuals of the remmant would be saved as gentiles through repentance and faith.
As to Romans 11:26 & 27 - What's the problem? All Israel will be saved. But you better understand who "all Israel" is. Note Romans 9:6 - "...For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." In other words , it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring." NIV. See, all the children of promise of the true Israel of God will be saved!!
As to Revelation 7: 4-8 - Isn't it interesting how this passage parrallels Matthew 24:31. Check it out. After the destruction of Jerusalem, the Lord sends out His messengers to gather in the elect. And the completed number (symbolically represented by 144,000) will be saved. Note this explanation by Jamieson, Faucett and Brown in their commentary:
Twelve is the number of the tribes, and appropriate to the Church: three by four: three, the divine number, multiplied by four, the number for world-wide extension. Twelve by twelve implies fixity and completeness, which is taken a thousandfold in 144,000. A thousand implies the world perfectly pervaded by the divine; for it is ten, the world number, raised to the power of three, the number of God. of all the tribes--literally, "out of every tribe"; not 144,000 of each tribe, but the aggregate of the twelve thousand from every tribe.
It is also interesting to note, Mr. historian, that all the tribes are not mentioned. Dan and Ephraim are missing. Hmmmmm....
Don't be so snide. Nothing is out of God's control. Surely His hand was in it. After all, didn't Scripture say that He would sent a strong delusion and many would be damned by it? Hmmmm, maybe dispensationalism is that delusion?
Don't delude yourself. :-)
Not! Read the 'Apostles Creed' sometime.
Jean
Does that mean that belief in the fulfillment of all prophecy and the parousia of Christ beginning in 70 AD is necessary for salvation? Can a dispensationalist actually be saved?
If a dispensationalist can be saved, then what purpose would there be for God to restore Israel in order to deliberately delude his Children? Does God take pleasure in that? Is Israel's existence today some kind of divine joke?
I am not saying that dispensationalists are not saved. I am saying that they are following a false teaching. They are still walking by sight and not by faith. Everything has to square with "physical" Israel. You say nothing of spiritual Israel. And there is a huge distinction between the two. The natural state is still in bondage and the spiritual one is free. Take your pick. I would rather be on God's side in this matter.
Now as to God deluding or hiding truth. Check for yourself and let me know what you think of Mark 4:10-12.
I have stated my case quite clearly. I will argue no more of this with you. I entreat you to put away your Scofield, your Walvoord, your Lindsey and Ryrie study Bibles and read Scripture only. I pray that the Spirit of our Lord will open your eyes to His truth.
An interesting and thoughtful article. Permit me to point out that there were no Jews until well after the split between the Northern and Southern Kingdoms. Most scholars assert the title "Jew" was not used until the return of the remnants of the Southern Kingdom from Babylonian captivity ~500 BC.
Therefore, all reference to of the word "Jew" prior to that time should be to "Israelites" instead. Here is a partial list which may be helpful:
Partial list of Biblical CHARACTERS WHO WERE NOT JEWISH
Genesis: God, Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, Seth, Enoch, Methuselah, Noah, Shem, Ham, Japheth, Lot, Abraham,
Sara, Melchizedek, Eliezer, Hagar, Ishmael, Isaac, Abimelech, Rebekah, Laban, Keturah, Esau, Jacob/Israel, Leah,
Rachel, Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Benjamin, Dinah,
Potiphar, Tamar, Perez, Zerah, Manasseh, Ephraim.
Exodus: Moses, Zipporah, Gershom, Jethro, Aaron, Eleazar, Joshua, Hur, Nadab, Abihu, Ithamar, Bezalel, Uri,
Nun, Oholiab, Ahisamach.
Leviticus: Mishael, Elzaphan, Uzziel, Molech, Shelomith, Dibri.
Others: David, Solomon and Sampson were not Jews, among many others...
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