I don't disagree. God's spirit is a sign of ownership and a promise that we will have eternal life in Christ. For what reason and end are you persevering?
The holy spirit is the promise that God will give us eternal life at the coming of Christ. This occurs at the second coming of Christ:
Where do you hang out till then.? Will you be spiritually dead?
The bible teaches that our spirit returns to God in an unconscious state to await the resurrection. But what happens when someone gives you earnest money? Isn't that money a promise of more money to come? Is the earnest money the complete sum of money promised? The answer of course is no. God's Holy Spirit given to believers through Christ is an earnest of the spiritual body, eternal life, we are promised. It's not the whole deal, but it is part of it. You don't get the rest until later.
But then again, this is just Paul exactly describing when and what occurs.
He is describing the second coming and the physical bodies coming out of the grave
Nope. Look:
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
If you read this, you see there at least two resurrections. In the first one, people are resurrected and live and reign with Christ for a thousand years. Therefore, this must be a group that is resurrected at Christs second coming. This corresponds to:
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
And also corresponds to:
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Paul was a believer. He was talking about the group he's going to be in, the ones resurrected at the beginning of the thousand year reign of Christ. " on such the second death hath no power,". This is an immortal, eternal group, resurrected with spiritual bodies, just as Paul said.
The second group though ARE part of a physical resurrection. They CAN die because they are mortal. They are subject to the second death.
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Lets look at the Greek for the word HAVE
From Greek Mood
: "In general, mood is the feature of the verb that presents the verbal action or state with reference to its actuality or potentiality. Voice indicates how the subject relates to the action or state of the verb; tense is used primarily to portray the kind of action."
Let's look at the mood sense for the word "echo", for which you gave the tense. From Blueletterbible.org:
5792 Mood - Subjunctive
The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances. Conditional sentences of the third class ("ean" + the subjunctive) are all of this type, as well as many commands following conditional purpose clauses, such as those beginning with "hina." So if I'm reading this right, a believer MAY or MAY not have eternal life according to this statement. God won't take it away, but a believer can reject his salvation.
Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated.
I don't disagree with your analysis. In fact I agree with it and commend you on the good job you did with this verse. You are right. Absolutely we have passed into life from death. God sees our sins no more. We have the eternal holy spirit of God residing in us. We are no longer subject to the death penalty in God's eyes. We have been granted reprieve. It occurred once and for all when we accepted Christ. So yes, as I pointed out in an earlier post, we have the seed of eternal life in us. It is the earnest money. But it doesn't culiminate into full spiriutal maturity in the form of our spiritual bodies until the second coming of Christ. That is the rest of the earnest money promised to us.
From Greek Mood
: "In general, mood is the feature of the verb that presents the verbal action or state with reference to its actuality or potentiality. Voice indicates how the subject relates to the action or state of the verb; tense is used primarily to portray the kind of action."
Let's look at the mood sense for the word "echo", for which you gave the tense. From Blueletterbible.org:
5792 Mood - Subjunctive
The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances. Conditional sentences of the third class ("ean" + the subjunctive) are all of this type, as well as many commands following conditional purpose clauses, such as those beginning with "hina." So if I'm reading this right, a believer MAY or MAY not have eternal life according to this statement. God won't take it away, but a believer can reject his salvation.
Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated.
Doug will you PLEASE think?
Why would the mood be SUBJECTIVE He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me,
The condition is the hearing and the believing
Unlike the other verses that were to those that already believed , this was telling the conditions that bring eternal life .....thus it is a conditional promise the CIRCUMSTANCE is the hearing and believing <<<
I have asked your about 5 times where you will be after you die until the resurrection. You do not answer but just keep moving the target. May I have an answer to that before we continue?