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JH: My main question for you would be, why is there no place in scripture wher we're told that a believer will ever loose his salvation, or go to hell, in those words? Why did He always use words that can have many neanings?

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Since these words are being spoken to the Churches [JH: "all of us believers in His 'church,'"], They have joined with Christ, and should have Eternal security.

Now you may give all due credit for your overcoming to Jesus (which would make it, by my understanding, a manifestation of irresistible Grace), but why does this passage say you will not eat of the tree of life unless you overcome, and how could you not overcome if it was all due to Jesus?

What does overcoming mean to you?

If overcome means "receive Eternal security" why mention it to Churches that already have that, and if not, why put it in the form of a warning :"he who has ears, let him hear?"

Do you agree that the "Tree of Life" is Eternal Life?

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The answer to your question (in paraphrase) why does it never tell us we can lose our Eternal security? is this: these passages, and the one above, clearly do say that unless we interpret them the way you do: James 1:12-15, and Mat 24:13 and Cor 9:27, and Peter 2:20 all say much the same thing, and further, James says that failure to win the crown (resist temptation) is death.

It may be that it never occurred to the authors that their message could ever have been misunderstood given the context, and they took it for granted that we would all continue to interpret the Bible in the same way. Clearly we do not. As a message of peace and love and promise, perhaps the authors felt it should remain the hopeful side of the equation and left the serious fire and brimstone up to the Pastors of the individual churches.

*James 1:12 Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Reward for enduring=Crown of Life
Penalty for not enduring=death

*Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Reward for overcoming=eat of the Tree of Life
Penalty for not overcoming=death

Because these two verses have the same penalty, they have the same reward, and so they say the same thing to me:
overcoming=enduring temptation,
the reward=Eternal Life,
the penalty=death.

As a working definition of temptation: anything that closes you to Grace: the snares of Satan, Sin, and failure to follow His word. That which will cause you to fall away unless you repent of it.

If you feel they are different, can you explain why?

v.
this is my final post on the subject. If my point is not clear after these thousands of words, it will never be. Thank you for listening.

The person who overcometh is all believers, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

The letters in Rev. are written to Churches not individuals. How many of those churches are still around? I have no doubt that there were individuals who were saved, but the church itself became corrupt so it's lampstand was taken away. I believe this is why God intended each church to run itself independently. In the event that it became corrupt the true believers would leave and the church would eventually die out stopping the spread of false teachings.

In Genesis God did not want man to live forever after he had sinned because he would go on sinning, and become more and more corrupt as we have:) Can you imagine how this world would be if some of the really bad people lived forever? Yikes! Do you think any believers could have survived this long?

Any way, this is how I see these verses, I realize you do not agree. I have read the bible with the catholic teachings in mind, and given human nature, the catholic teachings just don't fit 100%, If you can't reconcile one point of the bible it throws the whole thing into question, IMO. Saved by faith only, and OSAS seems to me the only way to reconcile the entire bible, and
give the peace to believers that God promised.

Becky