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To: SoothingDave
If they do without recognizing that she is not a source of grace, but a channel of it, then they are in error.

Okay, but consider this. Everything comes from God. The Catholic petitions Mary, who petitions God for the favor. So the ultimate source is God. But then, there is a different stream of belief which says that God will grant anything that Mary asks, because he cannot refuse her. And if God cannot refuse Mary, then she does have functionally divine power.

she does not control to whom they go

Then why pray to her for graces? From a Catholic web site:

Prayer of Petition
O Ever-Virgin Mother of God and Mediatrix of Grace who art the House of Gold within which dwells thy Son, our Mediator, Jesus Christ, we humbly beseech thee to grant our requests for our salvation and the salvation of the entire world. (Here pause and make your requests) Keep us close to the Vicar of thy Son in the unity of the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church. Hear our prayer and grant the requests we make to thee.

Popular devotions such as this clearly suggest that Mary distributes the graces. And the writings of the popes I posted certainly don't contradict this.

48,612 posted on 04/25/2003 12:19:16 PM PDT by malakhi (fundamentalist unitarian)
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To: malakhi
The Catholic petitions Mary, who petitions God for the favor. So the ultimate source is God. But then, there is a different stream of belief which says that God will grant anything that Mary asks, because he cannot refuse her. And if God cannot refuse Mary, then she does have functionally divine power.

And Mary has no will outside of the will of God. So there is no thing that God would "have" to do that God didn't want to do, just because Mary "wanted" it.

It's all somewhat circular.

she does not control to whom they go

Then why pray to her for graces?

Popular devotions such as this clearly suggest that Mary distributes the graces.

Yes, that's her job. She distributes the graces. But she does nto operate independently of God.

There is no clash of Wills. No one is getting any graces from Mary that God didn't intend.

SD

48,628 posted on 04/25/2003 12:32:13 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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