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To: biblewonk
No way!

Yes way. Here's a brief testimonial.

As the center of world Christianity shifted from Ephesus to Rome, Mary began to be exalted, worshipped, and prayed to as a mediator to God. It is not surprising, then, that the Roman Catholic Church would choose Ephesus as the place to convene an ecumenical council in 431 in order to declare officially that Mary is the "Mother of God." This began a steady increase of Mary worship through the centuries and lasting until today. According to the August 1997 Newsweek cover story, for example, over 4 million petitions have been received by the Vatican to declare Mary co-redemptrix with Jesus. If this becomes dogma, all Catholic prayers to Jesus will be expected to go first to Mary. Pope John Paul II is a declared worshipper of Mary and he bows before her and prays to her as a mediator. Her idols have proliferated more around the world than Diana's ever had.

Mary is a skillful adaptive deception of the Queen of Heaven. Since Diana became worthless after the spiritual warfare of Paul and John, the Queen of Heaven needed another disguise. When I suggested this to Hector Torres after returning from Turkey, he said, "Of course. Don't you realize how many pictures and idols of the Virgin Mary in Latin America have her connected to the crescent moon, the symbol of the moon goddess?" This was news to me, but as soon as I looked, there it was! In fact, one of the frequent titles given by Catholics to Mary is "Queen of Heaven."

Doris and I were horrified when, in 1996, we visited Rome for the first time and took a guided tour of the Vatican. We had not been inside the building for more than 10 minutes when we were startled to see a life-sized statue of Diana of the Ephesians on public display.

C. Peter Wagner, Coordinator, International Spiritual Warfare Network

46,997 posted on 04/16/2003 11:35:08 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
If you believe any of that, you are foolish. There are too many errors to even begin refuting it.

SD

47,004 posted on 04/16/2003 11:52:55 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Wow, thanks for the testimonial. You can see why Marianism is my #1 beef with the RC church. I won't be pulled off to peripheral arguments because this is the one that can and should be knocked out of the park. I'm sure SD is perfectly OK with the statues and their symbolism or he'd just point out that you are simply a bigot and should be ignored.

Oh well, back to the front I go.

47,007 posted on 04/16/2003 12:07:44 PM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrissssstian)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
As the center of world Christianity shifted from Ephesus to Rome, Mary began to be exalted, worshipped, and prayed to as a mediator to God.

Nope. Nobody worships Mary. And she is prayed to as an intercessor, just like we can intercede for others.

It is not surprising, then, that the Roman Catholic Church would choose Ephesus as the place to convene an ecumenical council in 431 in order to declare officially that Mary is the "Mother of God."

Gulit by association. I suppose if the had held it in Athens we would be accused of worshipping some Athenian god. Any port in a storm.

This began a steady increase of Mary worship through the centuries and lasting until today.

Nope. Nobody worships Mary. She is not divine.

According to the August 1997 Newsweek cover story, for example, over 4 million petitions have been received by the Vatican to declare Mary co-redemptrix with Jesus.

Yes, and? This guy is trafficing in the ignorance of his followers as to what "co-" means in this context. He is deliberately misleading people.

If this becomes dogma, all Catholic prayers to Jesus will be expected to go first to Mary.

Again, this is not true at all. I have never even heard such nonsense. I suppose the petition or definition where this is stated would be too much to ask for this charlatan to produce as evidence?

Pope John Paul II is a declared worshipper of Mary and he bows before her and prays to her as a mediator.

The Pope worships God alone. This is a lie.

Her idols have proliferated more around the world than Diana's ever had.

Idols are gods. Mary is not a god and her statues are not idols.

Mary is a skillful adaptive deception of the Queen of Heaven.

And here I thought she was the mother of Our Lord.

Since Diana became worthless after the spiritual warfare of Paul and John, the Queen of Heaven needed another disguise.

Diana was stomped out and her memory and reverence transferred to the mother of the Lord. The only people who remember Diana are freaky fundamentalists with axes to grind.

When I suggested this to Hector Torres after returning from Turkey, he said, "Of course. Don't you realize how many pictures and idols of the Virgin Mary in Latin America have her connected to the crescent moon, the symbol of the moon goddess?"

Whoever Hector Torres is. This is of the line of thought that any depiction that resembles anythign pagan is by definition pagan. It's an asinine theory. There were pagan gods who died and were resurrected. That must make Jesus a pagan god as well, by that theory.

This was news to me, but as soon as I looked, there it was! In fact, one of the frequent titles given by Catholics to Mary is "Queen of Heaven."

Yes, and what does the title mean? That she is mother of the King. Few Christians will deny this. Again, the similarity of names and images is used as proof of somethign that is simply not there. It's a form of paranoia.

Doris and I were horrified when, in 1996, we visited Rome for the first time and took a guided tour of the Vatican. We had not been inside the building for more than 10 minutes when we were startled to see a life-sized statue of Diana of the Ephesians on public display.

Yeah, right.

SD

47,010 posted on 04/16/2003 12:09:13 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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