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To: malakhi
I may be getting into something here that I am not sure of, but I will make a stab at it. I believe if, say for instance you, (that is what we are talking about right) You are not sure but you think it may be true that Jesus is God incarnate come to save the lost by His sacrifice. I believe if by faith you act on that even if you have doubts (which BTW, we all do at times, that is Satan), and continue by faith to act on God's promises He will increase your beliefs and give you peace about it. Acting on faith would be to continue to study His Word and accept it by faith.

Roms. 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

Becky

46,633 posted on 04/11/2003 6:41:10 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
come to save the lost by His sacrifice

I like the way you put it here better than the expression that "he died to atone for our sins". It shouldn't surprise you that I have to put these things in my own words, and the above is closer to my way of thinking than the "atonement" language. My main problem with the idea of someone else atoning for your sins is that Ezekiel explicitly says that this is impossible.

The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. (Ezekiel 18:20)

I don't see how you can escape the plain meaning of this passage.

Now, that being said, "saving the lost" has a different connotation that doesn't necessarily contradict Ezekiel. It can, for example, mean "showing the way". One of the teachings of mystical Judaism is that Creation is broken, and that part of our role is to cooperate with God in repairing the world and reconciling it to Him. It is in this sense that I can see Jesus's role -- revealing or making present God's love for us, and by doing so reconciling man to God.

Contrary to the gospel, I don't think that this is an exclusive way to God. I believe that people can be in relationship with God without even knowing about Jesus. "For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God."

46,649 posted on 04/11/2003 8:29:27 AM PDT by malakhi (fundamentalist unitarian)
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain; malakhi
Mark 9:17 And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;

18 And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.

19 He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.

20 And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.

21 And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.

22 And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.

23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.

26 And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.

27 But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.

28 And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out?

29 And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

46,658 posted on 04/11/2003 9:37:46 AM PDT by Quester
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