again.
Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
It’s amazing how you and other Works Based Salvation Believers, can dispute Scriptural Eternal Salvation when we give you enough rope to allow you to stray out of the scriptural pasture, and into the swamp of reason and philosophy.
Romans 4:4-5 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
V-5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
-- Living Bible Romans 4:4 But didn't he earn his right to heaven by all the good things he did? No, for being saved is a gift; if a person could earn it by being good, then it wouldn't be free--but it is! It is given to those who do not work for it. For God declares sinners to be good in his sight if they have faith in Christ to save them from God's wrath.
Now instead or giving me man’s reasoning, first disprove what Paul made so clearly here in the KJV.
Take each point Paul makes, and give us some reasonable explanation what he was trying to tell us,that he had so much trouble with.
JH :-)
"Stupid, flippant remark" isn't ridicule?
It certainly isn't rdicule to point out the logical necessity of a particular theological weak point. As with the "age of accountability" exception to "all have sinned". Just kill 'em all before they hit twenty, right? Or why send food aid to starving countries... most of those kids won't make it to the age of 20, so we'd be doing them a favor?
And please refrain from quoting the "Living Bible"? I expect better from you.
Becky
Comin' right up. Don't forget to respond in the form of a question. :-)
First of all in order to set up the end of days scenerio. The explanation was given that one of the lies of dispensationalism is that the church began in the 2nd chapter of acts. This was dispelled in the following manner. The word "Eclessia" translated in English as church (assembly), came from the Hebrew word "Kahal". There are 3 places in the Book of Dueteronomy for the word "Kahal". 18:15-16, 9-10, & 10-4. Therefore the church begain at Sinai and the rebirth of the (Assembly)church in the 2nd chapter of Acts. Dispensationalism believes the "church age" is finished at the pre-trib rapture.
Since in 2 Peter 3 8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
and confirmed again in Psalms 90:4, its understood (Rabbis have confirmed) that the 7 in Genesis creation days represent 7,000 of God's redemptive plan ending with the final 1,000 likened unto a Sabbath which is the Millenial reign of Christ. Since when judgement was pronounced on Adam it says "for in that day you eat of it you will die". Obviously he didn't die in a 24 hour period but died just before a thousand years were up. Hence a day.
Also in the Prophets it speaks of "the day of the Lord". Some "day of the Lord scriptures" are full of judgement, some "day of the Lord scriptures" are peaceful such as "the lamb will lay down with the lion". Nonetheless, its understood that the "day of the Lord" is the thousand year Sabbath at the end of the 7,000 year redemption cycle.
Since in the Book of Colossians it explains that a Sabbath is a shadow of things to come, let's look at what a Sabbath is. It is the 7th day beginning at sundown until the next sundown. So since the Sabbath begins with darkness but is mostly light its believed that the "day of the Lord" begins with tribulation (7 years according to the NT) which means the final 993 are light and a peaceful reign with the Messiah. And at the end of all things we'll be given the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven.
This is a very condensed version of the sermon. Questions and comments encouraged. :-)
Ok. Give me a few minutes. My fingers are still tired from typing the last one. lol.
Okay then, I’ll quote from the “Catholic Edition of the Living Bible.”
Intro. by Father Keith Clark, O.F.M.Cap.
Was it because of his good deeds that God accepted him ? If so, then he would have something to boast about. But from God’s point of view Abraham had no basis at all for pride. For the Scriptures tell us Abraham believed God and that is why God canceled his sin and declared him “not Guilty.”
However, you don’t have to concern yourself over the commentary Bible translations, just take each point Paul makes on Romans 4:4 & 5, and give me the Catholic, our your interpretation of what he’s trying to say, and how we NC’s are mis-interpretating it.
JH :-)
Amen!
If on the other hand you are saying he looks at two innocent babies and says to one "you are mine "and to the other "go to hell" then I have a big problem with that. That isn't just and means we are only puppets, don't you think?
Amen!
You were picking your nose when he was preaching? :)
BigMack
Well, you missed the point, but that's ok since you seem to be running a little hot (check your thermostat lately?) - light ridicule.
OSAS types who believe you will never fall away will certainly respond as you've described (in fact, Scripture tells us to expect it), but that wasn't what I responded to. The idea that you can fall away but are guaranteed to return is a funny bastardization of OSAS which does leave itself open to the question. In your example you have a saved person deciding whether or not to sin. In the example given, you have someone who is no longer a Christian who (theoretically) can be guaranteed to reform prior to death. So he either won't die (my silly example to disprove the point)if he keeps on in sin, or can do whatever he wants because he doesn't care/believe in Christ any longer, but can be assured he will before it's too late if there really is a God.
No I don't pick my nose. But perhaps I was pulling my underwear out of my crack. :-)
Let's keep him going, JM ... he's gonna get carpal tunnel syndrome! ;o)
I'll send you the "end of days" one if you want Al. :-)
again.
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