The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[OLD REGGIE]

You need to read it, daring to believe that you may have been lead astray, not refusing to see the plain truth.

Patronizing snob!

[SoothingDave]

I answered that life insurance isn't a sin because you don't buy it out of covetness...the person who has life insurance on himself doesn't ever get to see the money if it pays off.

Ridiculous. He still covets the money, he still desires to have the money come to him. Or else he wouldn't sign the contract to begin with.

He puts some amount of capital at risk, with the desire that a large amount of money come to him upon his death.

The fact is there are many types of ventures that fit this exact description and gambling is only one of them. I could take $50,000 and open up a bagel shop and rifle range and lose it all. I open the shop not to lose the money, but to risk the money in order to gain more. My skill as a bagelmaker comes into play, but there are many factors outside of my control as well. We know most new restaurants don't make it past a few years.

Or I could take the $50,000 and play poker in Atlantic City. Again, my skill as a player combined with other factors, uncontrollable, presents me with the opportunity to make a great gain, or to lose it all.

SD

[drstevej]

Even if the wind had not blown the cards, just resorting them is a nightmare worse than hanging chads!

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Okay gambling is coveting, which is a violation of the ten commandments. :-)

Sorry, not all gambling is.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Ok, just make me happy then, accept Jesus as your savior and I can quit worring about you. Come on over to the other side, besides I seen a picture of you, and you don't look too Jewish to me anyway. :)

BigMack

[SoothingDave]

So do you think that Jesus would have gambled for money or condoned his disciples doing it?

I think Jesus would have had an unfair advantage.

Now, I can picture Paul sidling up to people in a casino and engaging them.

SD

[Havoc]

Sorry it's parked; but, sounds wise. Also sounds like a nice bike. I just could'nt remove the passenger pad - LOL. If you're gonna fish, it's wise to have someplace to put the catch - at least temporarily.. ;)

[malakhi]

By the way, this line lost kingship after being carried away into Babylon.

Who is the true king of Gondor? That they lost the kingship doesn't mean they lost the right to kingship. Except for Jeconiah's descendants, but this is stated specifically in scripture. Others of the line of David, not through Jeconiah, continued to carry the promises of God made to David and Solomon.

[OLD REGGIE]

I don't believe I ever said that. I answered that life insurance isn't a sin because you don't buy it out of covetness...the person who has life insurance on himself doesn't ever get to see the money if it pays off.

You did say it after Dave got through massaging your words and thoughts as only Dave can do.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Sorry, not all gambling is.

Ok O great one :) fill us in on the ones that are ok?

BigMack

[Invincibly Ignorant]

I didn't say they lost "rights" to the kingship. Although the 14 generations in that line were not kings. I still think its legit that Yeshua would have kingship thru David even if it turns out the blood came from Nathan..

[malakhi]

Not according to Ezekiel 44:21-22.

Ezekiel 40-48 is unfulfilled prophecy, pointing towards the future third temple/ messianic kingdom.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Ok O great one :) fill us in on the ones that are ok?

The ones where a person is participating and not coveting.

[SoothingDave]

Reading souls is telling whether one is saved or not - Discernment don't tell you that. Discernment tells you if there is an unclean spirit present and in some cases what type of spirit it is. And it's manifest in various ways.

Thanks for the explanation. How does it manifest itself? Do you hear or see these spirits, or is it just something you sense, or a voice you here, or what?

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

The ones where a person is participating and not coveting.

Example in your words please.

BigMack

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Example in your words please.

If I'm playing a game of croquet in the back yard with my family and somebody says the winner gets a buck from everyone else. I really don't give a crap whether I win or not. But I don't refuse the money if I do.

[SoothingDave]

2413 Games of chance (card games, etc.) or wagers are not in themselves contrary to justice. They become morally unacceptable when they deprive someone of what is necessary to provide for his needs and those of others. The passion for gambling risks becoming an enslavement. Unfair wagers and cheating at games constitute grave matter, unless the damage inflicted is so slight that the one who suffers it cannot reasonably consider it significant.

That's the Catechism's word on the subject.

SD

[malakhi]

but I don't see suffering as "redemptive."

I agree. Suffering should, where possible, be overcome or ameliorated. If we truly thought suffering was redemptive, we would want more of it, or at least would not make any effort to minimize it.

[SoothingDave]

Right. Like when I won the basketball torunament, I would not have been opposed to having everyone send me $5. LOL

SD

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Ezekiel 40-48 is unfulfilled prophecy, pointing towards the future third temple/ messianic kingdom.

The Torah is still taught in the messianic kingdom. "There he will teach us his marvelous ways." It shows me in hindsight what He meant by Levites not marrying other peoople.