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The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)
Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.


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TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; michaeldobbs
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To: trad_anglican; SoothingDave
For another view:

Chapter 1 > Verse 26 John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

Acts 1:26


And they gave forth their lots… Or "gave forth lots for them", as the Vulgate Latin and Ethiopic versions; for Joseph and Matthias; some for one, and some for another; and which were cast into a man's lap, or into a vessel, and was no other than balloting for them; and so he that had the majority upon casting them up, when taken out, was declared the person chosen; or "they cast their lots"; that is, into an urn, or vessel; which lots had the names of the two persons on them; and into another vessel, as is thought, were put two other lots; the one had the name of "apostle" upon it, and the other nothing; and these being taken out by persons appointed for that purpose, the lot with Matthias's name on it, was taken out against that which had the name of apostle on it, upon which he was declared to be the apostle: it may be that this was done in the same manner, as the goats on the day of atonement had lots cast on them, (Leviticus 16:8) which the Jews say was thus performed: there was a vessel which they call "Kalphi", set in the court, into which two lots, which were made of wood, or stone, or metal, were put; the one had written on it, for Jehovah, and on the other was written, "for the scapegoat"; the two goats being, the one at the right hand of the priest, and the other at the left; the priest shook the vessel, and with his two hands took out the two lots, and laid the lots on the two goats; the right on that which was at his right hand, and the left on that which was at his left F9; and so the goat which had the lot put upon him, on which was written, "for the Lord", was killed; and that which had the other lot, on which was written, for the scapegoat, was presented alive; so the lot here is said to fall upon Matthias: or the lots being cast into the vessel, as above related, these two drew them out themselves; and Matthias taking out that which had the word apostle on it, the lot fell on him: the manner of Moses's choosing the seventy elders, is said to be this F11:

etc.............

Cast Lots - Gill

51,481 posted on 05/05/2003 11:47:57 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE ((I am a cult of one! UNITARJEWMIAN))
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To: malakhi
The Levites did not intermix. If they had, they would have been ineligible to serve as priests.
And he shall take a wife in her virginity. A widow, or one divorced, or a woman who has been defiled, or a harlot, these he shall not marry; but he shall take to wife a virgin of his own people, that he may not profane his children among his people; for I am the LORD who sanctify him." (Leviticus 21:13-15)
Might it be that the Levite men did not intermarry with the other tribes, but that the Levite women were free to do so ?

If not, how did the marriage between Mary and Joseph come about ?

51,482 posted on 05/05/2003 11:52:12 AM PDT by Quester
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To: Quester
but he shall take to wife a virgin of his own people,

Do we know "a virgin of his own people" meant his own tribe?

51,483 posted on 05/05/2003 11:54:02 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant (Hows my posting? Call 1-800-Matthew 1:24 & 25.)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
And as for you, if you walk before me, as David your father walked, doing according to all that I have commanded you and keeping my statutes and my ordinances, then I will establish your royal throne, as I covenanted with David your father, saying, `There shall not fail you a man to rule Israel.' (2 Chronicles 7:12,16-18)

He did not walk before God as David his father. If you'll remember he had 700 wives resulting in the Kingdom being split in two. The northern kingdom and the southern kingdom.


Exactly!

51,484 posted on 05/05/2003 11:55:27 AM PDT by Quester
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me. (Psalm 55:16)

51,485 posted on 05/05/2003 11:57:45 AM PDT by malakhi
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To: OLD REGGIE
so the lot here is said to fall upon Matthias: or the lots being cast into the vessel, as above related, these two drew them out themselves; and Matthias taking out that which had the word apostle on it, the lot fell on him:

A game of chance, in other words.

SD

51,486 posted on 05/05/2003 11:58:59 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
Huh? God fulfilled his promise to David, in the person of Solomon. That this takes on a second, Messianic meaning does not mean that the fulfillment of it must follow the same path, does it?

All subsequent kings of Israel were of the line of David through Solomon.

51,487 posted on 05/05/2003 12:00:57 PM PDT by malakhi
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To: SoothingDave
A game of chance, in other words.

Sure. God makes all his major decisions this way. (sarcasm)
51,488 posted on 05/05/2003 12:08:43 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE ((I am a cult of one! UNITARJEWMIAN))
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To: OLD REGGIE; SoothingDave
Do you believe that Matthias was the twelth apostle??

JM
51,489 posted on 05/05/2003 12:10:36 PM PDT by JohnnyM
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To: Invincibly Ignorant; SoothingDave
He did not walk before God as David his father. If you'll remember he had 700 wives resulting in the Kingdom being split in two. The northern kingdom and the souther kingdom.

I will be his father, and he shall be my son. When he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, with the stripes of the sons of men;
but I will not take my steadfast love from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away from before you.
And your house and your kingdom shall be made sure for ever before me; your throne shall be established for ever.'"(2 Samuel 7:14-16)

This does not mean that there will always be a king in Israel (obviously). If the nation is disobedient, there will be no king or kingdom. But, this does not mean that God would put someone else on the throne other than one of Solomon's descendants. They will be "chastened", but, unlike Saul, this line will not lose the right to kingship.

Behold, a son shall be born to you; he shall be a man of peace. I will give him peace from all his enemies round about; for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quiet to Israel in his days.
He shall build a house for my name. He shall be my son, and I will be his father, and I will establish his royal throne in Israel for ever.' (1 Chronicles 22:9-11)

The author of Matthew was probably aware of this, because he does list the genealogy through Solomon:

and Jesse the father of David the king. And David was the father of Solomon by the wife of Uri'ah (Matthew 1:6)

51,490 posted on 05/05/2003 12:13:38 PM PDT by malakhi
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To: malakhi
All subsequent kings of Israel were of the line of David through Solomon.

Hence, Isaiah 43:19

Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.

SD

51,491 posted on 05/05/2003 12:14:23 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: OLD REGGIE
Sure. God makes all his major decisions this way.

God does not make His decisions this way, but He certainly has revealed them this way.

Projecting egalitarian democracy upon this event is just a mite bit ethno-centric.

SD

51,492 posted on 05/05/2003 12:16:46 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: JohnnyM
Do you believe that Matthias was the twelth apostle??

That's what it says in the Book.

SD

51,493 posted on 05/05/2003 12:17:42 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Quester
Might it be that the Levite men did not intermarry with the other tribes, but that the Levite women were free to do so ?

Let me clarify. It did happen occasionally that Levites would marry outside of the tribe. But those who did so were then ineligible for temple service. Consider this:

If a priest's daughter is married to an outsider she shall not eat of the offering of the holy things. (Leviticus 22:12)

So the possibility of such marriages is considered. They are not prohibited. But the daughter cannot then eat of the offerings.

51,494 posted on 05/05/2003 12:19:20 PM PDT by malakhi
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Do we know "a virgin of his own people" meant his own tribe?

There would have been no need to specify, otherwise. All Israelites were prohibited from intermarriage with non-Israelites.

51,495 posted on 05/05/2003 12:20:40 PM PDT by malakhi
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To: malakhi
So the possibility of such marriages is considered. They are not prohibited. But the daughter cannot then eat of the offerings.

I've already asked Quester this question and I'll ask you as well. Does "outsider" mean outside the tribe of Levi or outside the tribes of Israel?

51,496 posted on 05/05/2003 12:21:38 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant (Hows my posting? Call 1-800-Matthew 1:24 & 25.)
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To: JohnnyM
Hi JohnnyM, long time no see! Welcome back.
51,497 posted on 05/05/2003 12:21:41 PM PDT by malakhi
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To: malakhi
Lol. You beat me to it.
51,498 posted on 05/05/2003 12:22:50 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant (Hows my posting? Call 1-800-Matthew 1:24 & 25.)
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To: malakhi
All Israelites were prohibited from intermarriage with non-Israelites.

Boaz did.

51,499 posted on 05/05/2003 12:23:48 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant (Hows my posting? Call 1-800-Matthew 1:24 & 25.)
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To: SoothingDave
Paul is mentioned in many of the New Testament books as an apostle of Jesus Christ. The New Jerusalem in Revelations is said to have 12 foundation stones representing the apostles. Matthias is never mentioned again after Acts 1. Also, consider that Paul, like the apostles before him, was chosen by Jesus. I would think that Paul is the twelth apostle, which may shed some light on the signifigance of the lot casting in Acts.

JM
51,500 posted on 05/05/2003 12:24:59 PM PDT by JohnnyM
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