The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[OLD REGGIE]

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Therefore

Someone who does not endureth temptation, can not receive the crown of life.

Are you making light of the word "endureth"? Are you interpreting this as an absoloute?

What did the Lord promise to those who loved Him?

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Dave, I never said I had a problem with them taking the money. Actually, I was impressed by the dedicatedness of the children.

Becky

[SoothingDave]

First, because even if he can afford to lose the money, it seems his gambling is excessive which, in turn, calls into question his qualifications to speak specifically on the subject of virtue. Already, one can see the self-satisfied smugness of the Left as it bashes Bennett for this fault, using it as a means to call into question everything he's said on the subject. Second, given his national audience and prominence, it seems very likily those who can't afford to gamble may get the impressions its "o.k." to gamble and will thus engage in harmful activity.

I agree. I was more addressing whether each act of gambling is sinful by its very nature. Your comments on Bennett are right on.

SD

[SoothingDave]

Dave, I never said I had a problem with them taking the money. Actually, I was impressed by the dedicatedness of the children.

OK. I wasn't sure. It seems like Doug and Jim were of a different opinion, that the Church should refuse such monies.

I know just this year, a guy from WV won the Powerball and was going to totally finance a new building for his (Methodist, I think) Church.

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I think the verse Al quoted, "to whom much is given" helps alot on this subject. But...:), then does that mean that what is a sin for one is not a sin or others? Is it a sin for the average Joe to got gamble $20 a week?

Becky

[SoothingDave]

Every one who sets aside 20 bucks to game in place of going to a movie or out to dinner is going again Biblical principles of lust, greed and giving to others?

On some basic level perhaps so. Movies are usually all about glorifying things that are antithetical to Christianity. Blowing 50 bucks on a dinner that we could have prepared ourselves is probably not the greatest thing either.

You sound awfully Puritanical.

Maybe that's why the gate is so narrow. I don't know. What I believe is that Christ will progressively "holify" (is that a word?)

"Sanctify"

us so that these things become less and less frequent. In the meantime God understands that these things are part of the society we live in and that they're unavoidable to a certain extent. Total separation from society isn't the new testament norm.

I don't think going out to dinner is something that we need to spiritually grow into avoiding. God really doesn't mind if we eat, drink and be merry from time to time.

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

(Furthermore, one might note, that gambling plays a part in the New Testament, in selecting the replacement apostle for Judas. )

The lots the Apostles cast were akin to ballots. It was not like rolling the dice.

[SoothingDave]

I think the verse Al quoted, "to whom much is given" helps alot on this subject. But...:), then does that mean that what is a sin for one is not a sin or others?

Very much so. I can go into WalMart and come out with 2 items. If every time you go, you spend too much, then going to WalMart is an occasion of sin for you.

Why? Cause we have different temptations.

Is it a sin for the average Joe to got gamble $20 a week?

Generally speaking, no. Unless Joe has no discretionary funds, that is. WOuld he maybe be better off (no pun) putting the $20 into a jar instead? Maybe. But there is something serendipitous about hitting a number of a football pool and using the winnings for something special for the family.

SD

[SoothingDave]

The lots the Apostles cast were akin to ballots. It was not like rolling the dice.

That ain't what I heard.

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

I only have one question for y'all. Would you begrudge the Church if it took an equal amount of money from the proceeds of the man's life insurance?

Or refused to take money from the VOTF?

[SoothingDave]

Or refused to take money from the VOTF?

That has nothing to do with anything. (Except, of course, not answering my question.)

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

God really doesn't mind if we eat, drink and be merry from time to time.

I agree, but I think God does care HOW we make merry. Do you have more fun drinking beer and watching football with a group of men, or spending time with your wife and daughter? Can you make merry without drinking, gambling, etc.?

Becky

[biblewonk]

"Yours" as in your dermagraphologist-slash-awlbearer. Has he mentioned anything about this latest fad?

Yeah, we both think the "extreme body-mod" is gross and a sure sign of possession.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Yo Mack. When do you want me to begin posting my notes from the "Hebraic Roots of Christianity" seminar I attended this weekend? :-)

[OLD REGGIE]

(Reg) The lots the Apostles cast were akin to ballots. It was not like rolling the dice.

That ain't what I heard.

What did you hear? Where?

[SoothingDave]

I agree, but I think God does care HOW we make merry.

Sure.

Do you have more fun drinking beer and watching football with a group of men, or spending time with your wife and daughter?

Different things. To everything there is a season.

Can you make merry without drinking, gambling, etc.?

If you wish. The point is that God wants us to be happy. He doesn't want us worrying if we are somehow being greedy if we go out to dinner.

SD

[SoothingDave]

What did you hear? Where?

Dictionary.com:

The use of objects in making a determination or choice at random: chosen by lot.

"Random" is the key word here. Voting is not random, and lots are not ballots. They are the precursors of dice.

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

That has nothing to do with anything. (Except, of course, not answering my question.)

It has much to do with it. A choice is made for a reason.

Do you think the church would have refused the contribution from the family if they had said "this money cannot be used for Archdiocese expenses".

For the record, I see nothing wrong with the church accepting the families money.

[SoothingDave]

Do you think the church would have refused the contribution from the family if they had said "this money cannot be used for Archdiocese expenses".

That would be rather silly. The point, still irrelevant, is that VOTF wanted to position itself as a holder of pursestrings, as a "filter" of funds, in a direct challenge to the authority of the diocese.

A wealthy donor can be humored, having some say in who benefits from his largess. But that s quite different from the assault that is VOTF.

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

Dictionary.com:

The use of objects in making a determination or choice at random: chosen by lot.

"Random" is the key word here. Voting is not random, and lots are not ballots. They are the precursors of dice.

Dictionary.com is not the Bible, though I am not surprised you will choose a particular dictionary meaning over Scripture. "Casting lots" has several different meanings in Scripture and Mathias was not chosen by "the luck of the draw".