The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Carry on:)

No thanx. :-)

[SoothingDave]

You can look for meaning and inspiration, or you can look to deconstruct and explain away all meaning. Ultimately, post-modernism is nihilism.

Exactly. There is a vast difference between arguing, as we do here, over what a text really means; and arguing that no text really means anything until a reader imbues it with whatever meaning he chooses.

SD

[Invincibly Ignorant]

I don't think the gospel account specifies how long Mary and Joseph had been betrothed. It makes a difference if they were planning on being married the next week, versus another year later.

That's why the present tense of "I know not a man" is important.

[OLD REGGIE]

(Reg) you insist that each and every rediculous assertion must be denied?

Ah, the tables have turned! ;o)

Since I addressed my remark to an individual I assume you are addressing yours to this individual. (smiley notwithstanding).

When did I do so?

[Quester]

We had a long sermon a year or so ago about how "without Esther, there is no Easter". That she played a critical role in salvation history and was thus a participant in your salvation.

Indeed. From such viewpoint, all of JESUS human ancestors, ... plus a host of other folk who manipulated circumstances here and there, ... played a part in and, thus, ... was a participant in our salvation, as well.

[SoothingDave]

This was the beginning of JESUS ministry.

Not in John's Gospel.

SD

[malakhi]

Hi Segale, welcome aboard! We actually have a pretty wide mix of beliefs here. This just happens to be the topic du jour.

[malakhi]

Sounds like you were saying since Mary participated in the Incarnation she is now allowed to participate in the salvation of each person.

Without Judas or Pilate, there would have been no crucifixion. Does this make them co-redeemers too?

[OLD REGGIE]

Don't start the day off with obtuseness. If a virgin (pay attention now) about to be married was told that she was (pay attention now) going to conceive a child (note the future tense) why would she conclude that it must be a miracle?

Don't start the day off with obtuseness. If a virgin (pay attention now) about to be married was told that she was (pay attention now) going to conceive a child (note the future tense) and she understood this would happen before the marriage why would she conclude that it must be a miracle?

[Havoc]

Of course, from one who was earlier making fun of a typo, decency is a lot to expect.

Oh, I hadn't noticed I'd left you out, Dave. Sorry. Nor was I aware that you were so sensitive about your typos. Nor was I aware that making fun of typos was indecent. And for that matter, I think I highlighted it without comment, did I not? Is your martyrdome complex getting worse?

[SoothingDave]

I don't think the gospel account specifies how long Mary and Joseph had been betrothed. It makes a difference if they were planning on being married the next week, versus another year later.

Not necessarily. The angel only announces a future event. A girl expecting to have sex in the future would not automatically jump to the conclusion that some other thing must be meant.

Certainly the nearness to the wedding could lend a factor, but nothing that is definite.

On the other hand, a woman with no intention of ever having sex certainly would ask such a question.

SD

[SoothingDave]

Don't start the day off with obtuseness. If a virgin (pay attention now) about to be married was told that she was (pay attention now) going to conceive a child (note the future tense) and she understood this would happen before the marriage why would she conclude that it must be a miracle?

If you want to use facts not in evidence, you have a point. Certainly if she understood it that way, her remark could be valid.

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

Guilty as charged. I tried to down play Mary by making her a braggart.

It isn't necessary to lie to make Mary look better.

[malakhi]

You're a bad father. All those other teams out there and you encouraged your son to like the Yankees. That's inexcusable. :-)

I didn't encourage him at all, other than letting him watch the 1999 World Series with me. He decided on his own to root for the Yankees.

I'd like to see a more level playing field, too (more revenue sharing, salary cap, etc.) But I have a great deal of respect for Joe Torre and players like Derek Jeter and Bernie Williams.

[SoothingDave]

Nor was I aware that making fun of typos was indecent. And for that matter, I think I highlighted it without comment, did I not?

Highlighting is a comment. A gentleman would feel no need to use such things in an attempt to make the other look bad.

Is your martyrdome complex getting worse?

I am forsaking a delicious comment to prove my point.

SD

[malakhi]

And since logic doesn't work here....

The Cretinous Heresy Lovefest -- a Logic-Free Zone. ;o)

[Havoc]

Welcome to the party Segale. All us NCs(Non-Catholics) have been pursuing the answer to that and other questions for some time here. Join in and watch them spin. I wish I could give you good advice; the only advice I can give is trust nothing without reference and if you have high expectations, don't lower them - but don't be shocked at what you see ;)

[SoothingDave]

It isn't necessary to lie to make Mary look better.

I didn't lie. The point is that all generatinos will call her blessed. I made a mistake and had the words coming out of her mouth rather than the angel's. There is no intent to deceive.

I don't even understand what possible difference it could have made. Can you explain that to me?

SD

[SoothingDave]

The Cretinous Heresy Lovefest -- a Logic-Free Zone

I was accused of peddling "good ideas" the other day. you might want to work that in somewhere. LOL

SD

[malakhi]

Everyone get's one chance to tell how they relate to Christ before everyone else jumps on to prove them wrong. :-) Of course, if you pick the "right" "team" we can offer you a certain amount of.... protection.

Now now, let's be nice to the new poster! ;o)