The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[RobbyS]

Don't kid yourself.

[Gamecock]

The successes the Catholic Church has achieved is unmatchable with any other religion.

Just look at all the Bible believing Churches that were created because of the Catholic Church!

[Havoc]

Other people say otherwise. Who is to decide who is right and who wrong?

That's pretty well settled. You already know the answer Robby. How many times have we been through this. It is without question that your elders of old had no authority to revise the OT. And revision of it after the coming of Christ is nothing if not pointless. I'm not sure I can say it better than I said here. Though I can add the example that has been floating about here as a matter of how much you guys understand and respect scripture in the first place. When confronted with a choice between your philosophy and what scripture says, what do you do with Ecclesiastes 9 but handwring and find anyway you can to ignore it. Just one example, there are countless. In order to have any credibility to begin with you first would have to respect what is there. And as a group, Catholicism does not. It turns it's nose up to what scripture says and utterly disregards it. If you have no respect for God's word, how can you pretend to have the first inkling of authority in having any say whatsoever as to what God's word is. For cryin out loud, I had to point out to you guys that this verse even existed. I can't count the number of times I've blind sided you guys. And I'm nothing - no one special.

The Apostles handed us what we needed. We have a total of 66 books including the OT that are universally accepted. Without the others - forged and otherwise, it rather leaves you guys up a creek for any number of doctrines that your church created - with no authority to do that either I might add. Another legacy of not knowing the jewish roots and presuming to redefine terms catholicism was ignorant of. Based on all this, Robby, it should be abundantly clear that the Catholic church has neither the knowledge, discernment, nor credibility to define a covenant. For cryin out loud they don't even respect and follow the one they defined. I understand why you can't see it. And I'm praying that God intervenes.

[malakhi]

Except for the "Judaizers". And the Donatists. And the Arians. And the Nestorians. And the Monotheletists. And the Orthodox. And the Protestants. And the Old Catholic Church. And the SSPX...

Minor detail I'm sure. :-)

Its a clever argument, if you can get other people to buy into it. Division only counts among non-Catholics.

[malakhi]

"Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! It has become the dwelling place of demons, a haunt of every foul spirit, a haunt of every foul and hateful bird; for all nations have drunk the wine of her impure passion, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown rich with the wealth of her wantonness."

Hmmm... say, what is your opinion of the war with Iraq?

[Havoc]

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.

Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.

It was so important, Solomon noted it twice.

[malakhi]

It is a religion defined by it's name and it's location - Rome.

I thought that your position was that Babylon did not refer to Rome?

[malakhi]

You could do what Mack and Jim did, and find one of those Catholic girls to convert. ;o)

[malakhi]

Luther, refused to accept Maccabees because it proved the worth of praying to the dead, those who have risen. Read 2Maccabees.

Jews, who pray for the dead, do not accept Maccabees as inspired, either. We read them as history, not scripture.

[malakhi]

Y'shua has always been the Mashiach; G-d is outside of Time and Space.

Okay, but not everyone in every place and time knows this. What happens to them?

[Havoc]

In the case of prophecy - I never have espoused such a view.
If you're trying to backward apply a linkage made through prophecy 35 years before the prophecy came about, then I will agree that is an incorrect usage. If you are suggesting you'd like to debate where Peter was when he wrote from Babylon at the same time Paul was sending out for Timothy some 1400 miles away to go after Mark and bring him to Rome - no problem. One doesn't send someone 1400+ miles out of the country to persuade another to go fetch a guy that's supposedly just across town. That's like me sending someone to California to roust the guy next door.
Doesn't take much brain power to figure out - does it.
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[malakhi]

but I often like to bring a NAB to point out translational errors "inconsistencies" to Jen.

Now you just need to pick up a JPS to spot the translational errors inconsistencies in your NAB. ;o)

[Havoc]

I'm already Gray, you tryin to make me bald? LOL

[malakhi]

I'm beginning to wonder if women come in emotionally stable, low baggage, undivorced with no kids brand anymore.

Emotionally stable? Low baggage? Boy, you're not asking much, are you? ;o)

[Havoc]

Its a clever argument, if you can get other people to buy into it. Division only counts among non-Catholics.

You seem to learn fast oh wise one. But can you take the pebble out of my hand? LOL

[malakhi]

So in your reading, the "Babylon" of 1 Peter does not refer to Rome, but the "Babylon" of Revelation does. I don't really have a problem with that, as the authors likely used the terms independently, and with different intentions. I was just curious to see if you have modified your opinion on the matter of Peter.

Of course, this dual usage of "Babylon" presents as much difficulty to the Catholic interpretation, but in reverse. Those who want to identify the Babylon of 1 Peter with Rome must explain why the Bablyon of Revelation does not refer to Rome.

[DouglasKC]

Since we're on the subject of bibles, I just have to make sure all interested parties are aware of some excellent and free bible software (Windows only). It's called e-Sword and is available for download at e-sword.net.

I'll second that...e-sword has been my e-bible of choice for the last two years. Fantastic, fast, and as near bug free a program as I've ever seen.

[RobbyS]

Who set the OT canon that you prefer? The scribes and pharisees, or their spiritual descendents who are denounced in the Christian scriptures for false teachings. Since the establishment of this canon happened about the same time that the same Jewish leaders expelled Christians from their assemblies, I fail to see why we should respect their authority.

[RobbyS]

I recently read a short blurb about Babylon in connection with the movement of 3rd MD past the site. According to it the city was in the First Century pretty much nothing.

[malakhi]

I fail to see why we should respect their authority.

Then be consistent and reject all of the Hebrew scriptures.