The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[SoothingDave]

The question is where Jesus derived this power from.

From God, right?

Because He was God. So He could speak for God, accept the repentence for God and give God's forgiveness.

I don't think he was just "communicating" forgiveness.

If his will was perfectly aligned with the Father's, then his saying "your sins are forgiven" would be the same as if the Father were saying this, no?

Yes.

Gotta go.

SD

[malakhi]

Not really. I think too much dependency on miracles is an odd objection to Christianity for a Jew to make. That's all.

What I meant by that is that, even if a Jew held that every miracle in the Hebrew scriptures was figurative instead of literal, he would still be a Jew. I'm not explaining this very well, and I'm running out of time. I'll make another go at this later.

[malakhi]

Jury Convicts Nuns in Missle Silo Protest

Good. (Apparently two of them had local ties. One of them graduated from my high school back in the 60's).

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

God can do anything He wants to, and did, He sent His Son, the Word, to die for me and you, to pay for our sins, I don't know about you, but I don't want to stand before God on my own and have to pay for my sins, He said we will stand before Him one day and give an account to Him, I'll have Jesus there with me, to pay the price I couldn't pay, how about you?

BigMack

[trad_anglican]

I'm not explaining this very well, and I'm running out of time. I'll make another go at this later.

Fair enough.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Congrats to the Neverending Picker Champion.

[JHavard]

I know you are very learned and smart. So by no means am I trying to insult you when I ask if you even read my posts OR 1,2 and 3rd John? Not to mention Jude!!

No on both counts, I’m not learned or smart, and with out God working in me I haven’t much to say on my own, and I don’t remember seeing your post on John and Jude.

Judaism was virtually wiped out in AD 70. Most of it went underground similar to Babylonian captivity. They no longer persecuted the church after AD 70!!

Which would explain why John didn’t use the word Jew, or Israel or anything pertaining to them one time in these writings.

John was now a Christian, and spent his later years with the Gentile converts, and Judaism wan no longer an issue for them, so it makes sense to me that this was well after 70AD.

1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby

1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

If John wrote these after 70AD, it’s certain he had no idea Jesus had returned, since he talked about the end, 4 times.

Do you believe those who put a 90 or 100AD date on Johns writings, that they had an ax to grind or a hidden agenda in choosing those dates? Why would they come up with these later dates?

JH, there is just as much evidence and MORE INTERNAL evidence for a pre-AD 70 date for all Epistles and Revelation!

And what was their agenda, and why would it carry more weight then anyone one else?

I’m thankful that you and Adam and the family are doing so well. Forgive me when I get so involved in a matter that I forget pleasantries. Ginny always ask about Adam. I tell her it’s not Adam that has the problem any longer, but his mothers husband. :-) JH

[SoothingDave]

Congrats to the Neverending Picker Champion.

Yes, I'd like to thank all of the little people.....

SD

[nate4one]

Forgive me when I get so involved in a matter that I forget pleasantries. Ginny always ask about Adam. I tell her it’s not Adam that has the problem any longer, but his mothers husband. :-) JH

Not a problem friend. Since you and I are in agreement on the simplicity of salvation, my problems are probably limited in this aspect to ignorance which I can live with. :o)

Funny how you left out the last part of verse 18.."whereby we know it is the last hour"
Not to mention the ENTIRE chapter is a push because the end times was upon his audience and the "darkness is passing away."
But like the entire New Testament audience, they died with their entire PURPOSE unfulfilled (according to you).

Again, the whole of the New Testament Epistles (Book of Acts especially) show that the thorn in the side, the "false prophets": that persecuted the church and decieved many, WERE JUDAIZERS. All of Johns warnings about the "spirit of the Anti-Christ that does not acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, were typically fellow religious zealots who returned, or never left their judaistic beliefs. And chose that law over Christ.
Jude is huge on this and you have yet to speak to Revelations warnings against the Jews who were a "synogogue of satan."

Again, Jesus said it, Apostles taught it, Christs words were similar to the prophets who prophecied about the fall of other nations. God came "in the clouds" plenty of times in scripture and all were in either judgment or salvation but never was there a "physical manifestation" of God, but ALL knew he was there.

Because Christ said it, and Apostles taught it, and Josephus' accounts consistantly fit a "coming in the clouds" AS IN THE OLD TESTAMENT, I will believe Christ and His Apostles that He did not lie and spread false hope to their entire audiences.

God Bless,
Nate

[malakhi]

Interesting thread on Shiite Islam.

Shiite Schism

[SoothingDave]

This follows his fatwa last week -- the first pro-U.S. fatwa in modern political Islam -- in which he ordered Iraq's Shiites not to resist U.S.-led coalition forces.

I hadn't heard this.

SD

[al_c]

Disclaimer: If you want on or off of this ping list, FReepmail me.

Tuesday, April 08,  2003
Lenten Weekday

First Reading: Responsorial Psalm: Gospel:

Numbers 21:4-9 Psalm 102, 2-3, 16-21 John 8:21-30 Expect the Lord, do manfully, and let thy heart take courage, and wait thou for the Lord.  -- Psalm xxvi. 14

The following is, as usual, from The Word Among Us:

Sin leads to death. This is a reality, a plain and simple fact that no one can change. Like a law of nature, it can't be disregarded, no matter how much we would like to hear otherwise. Sin leads us away from God, the very source of life.

But as relentless as the reality of sin is, it is equally true that Jesus came to save us from sin and death. As he told his followers, "You will die in your sins unless you believe that I am he" (John 8:24). Jesus' invitation never changes. He is always inviting us to repent of our sins and believe in him. Before we can repent, however, we must face up to our sins, and this can be quite difficult. "I live a good life," we tell ourselves, somehow forgetting patterns of sin and disobedience that bring disorder to our lives and relationships. Or, we might try to shirk responsibility by shifting the blame: "If only so-and-so weren't so difficult to live with." When a particular teaching from Scripture seems hard to follow, we might rationalize it away, saying, "I don't think that's really a sin anymore." When we consider struggles with temptation that seem impossible to overcome, we may think, "I'm too weak. What's the use?"

And so we fall into traps of denial, rationalization, and discouragement—all of which prevent us from being honest with ourselves and with God. In the meantime, sin remains, a powerful force leading us away from the very one who can heal and save us.

But a more powerful force leads us to our heavenly Father than any force that might draw us away: Jesus Christ. All he asks is that we invite him in and allow him to do his work in us! In prayer today, turn to Jesus and ask him to give you the courage to face your sins head on. Take advantage of the grace that is available in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Only Jesus can deliver you from the sins that seem to cling so stubbornly. Place your faith in him. His blood can make you clean.

"Jesus, I believe in you. I repent of all the ways that I have hurt you and those around me. Wipe away my sins and fill me with your love. Only you can deliver me."

----------

God bless.

AC

[malakhi]

Top cleric urges Shi'ites not to resist allies

[Invincibly Ignorant]

and you have yet to speak to Revelations warnings against the Jews who were a "synogogue of satan."

Just to clear things up, all jews were not of the "synagogue of Satan" but only those "who say they are jews but are not."

I will believe Christ and His Apostles that He did not lie and spread false hope to their entire audiences.

Wonderful. If somebody believes something other than the preterist view, Christ and the Apostles have to be lying. I hope for your sake nobody ever knocks down your perch cuz its gonna be a hard fall.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

I will believe Christ and His Apostles that He did not lie and spread false hope to their entire audiences.

And where's the false hope anyway? You believe the same most of us do in that Jesus is coming back to reign on the earth. Do you think we're all gonna be disappointed in that?

[nate4one]

I hope for your sake nobody ever knocks down your perch cuz its gonna be a hard fall.

What makes you think that this used-to-be futurist didn't have that experience to get where I am today?

all jews were not of the "synagogue of Satan" but only those "who say they are jews but are not."

I know. It was the same group that Christ called the sons of satan, the priesthood who distorted the law. The priesthood who was nonexistent after AD 70.

[nate4one]

You believe the same most of us do in that Jesus is coming back to reign on the earth. Do you think we're all gonna be disappointed in that?

False hope because you expect a physical manifestation of this.
I believe in the spiritual reality of this starting in AD 70.

He reigns on earth now. In YOU and me and all those whom He uses in this world for His purposes.

[CindyDawg]

Speaking of weather, we took a pounding this weekend. Hail stones the size of golf balls fell on my house (up to softball size was reported in the area).

Well, we just got the hail beat out of us. Bigger than golf balls. I found one about thr size of my fist. Unbelievable. Things like that don't happen here. One minute everything was fine and the next minute it sounded like a train on the roof. We blocked the windows. Glass was breaking everywhere. Thankfully our patients are all ok. Ours cars are messed up though. State Farm gonna have a fit.

[JHavard]

Because Christ said it, and Apostles taught it, and Josephus' accounts consistantly fit a "coming in the clouds" AS IN THE OLD TESTAMENT, I will believe Christ and His Apostles that He did not lie and spread false hope to their entire audiences.

Wherein lies the whole problem, your belief that we who spend our life waiting and hoping for the return of Christ, are living under false hopes.

Have you considered that, this false hope as you put it, is what keeps some of us going?
First of all, as with so many points of faith, you can not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, your belief that Christ has already returned as an absolute truth.

If it were that clear, then it would not be a matter of debate, it would be obvious to all, just as so many other Biblical truths are accepted by all Christian faiths and even some Jews.

God gave us the choice to believe what ever seems reasonable, and necessary, for each of us as individuals, once we’ve accepted what God deems necessary for our salvation. Once we have that truth, God gives us the freedom to follow our hearts on all other matters, as long as we remain headed toward God and his Kingdom.

Some of us need the feeling of urgency to motivate us. I found that in my working life I always preferred jobs that paid commission. In other words, It let me decided how much work I wanted to do, and how much money I wanted to make a week.

Others prefer security and a guarantee every week.
Others preferred long term security and retirement benefits.
Some prefer no work, and want the government to take care of them.
Others prefer self employment, and on and on.

God’s creation proves His love of diversity and uniqueness, in the variety of his work, and He certainly knew we would never be a people of onesize fits all.

Some people are more comfortable in a local community Church, regardless of what it teaches.

Some find the music an attraction, some the energy exuded by the people, some look for those who speak in tongues, and some for the atmosphere of the building.

Some love a Church that puts emphasis on the Law and the Jewish holy days, and some the Jewish Sabbath.

Some believe that how a woman dresses, or whether she wears jewelry, is of utmost importance, and some will go to a Church because their vegetarians.

Some love opulence in the building, some love statues and candles and smells and sounds and chants and pictures.

Some fear real or perceived scare tactics, such as eternal punishment or the surprise end of the age and the return of Christ, which can be seen as a frightening time.

When a person is brought up with any of these unique likes or dislikes, they can become an important part, of what they see as the true Church, because they feel comfortable in it, and not in the others.

Once a person knows God, and is being led by God’s Spirit, these different things can help them grow, but has nothing to do with the fundamentals of their faith, and God knows it.

And you Nate, you believe that anyone who doesn’t understand your belief, that Christ has already returned, and life goes on, we live we die, and God judges each when they die and it’s like a giant assembly line, that somehow we are missing out on a great truth, and one that would help us please God even more, and we’d be a happier people if we understood.

I would be most miserable believing as you do, and this would hurt my relationship with God. Just as if I were compelled to become a speaker in tongues, or go to a Church that doesn’t believe in musical instruments, or one that doesn’t allow women to wear slacks or makeup, or for anyone to eat meat.

Either all Churches who believe they have found the magic grail and are the few chosen out of billions, or, God has through His wisdom, found a way to make every follower of Christ feel unique and special, which produces faith and a long term spiritual commitment to our creator.

I have posted similar to this before, and even though I haven’t a doctrine or a written belief on the matter, I find I always come back to the same belief concerning differences between my faith and others.

We can always debate how we feel our belief is more reasonable then others, just as some prefer Chevy’s over Fords or Plymouths, but they both take us from point A to B, and B is the kingdom of heaven.

JH :-)

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Some prefer no work

I kinda like that one. :)

BigMack