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To: Dimensio
And I pointed out that while Darwin expressed concern over humans having "defeated" natural selection with doctors treating the sick and prolonging the lives of those who are "weaker" (with lowered constitution) he did not suggest any kind of a "solution" to his concerns.

You can point out as much as you like, and you can spin as much as you like also but the meaning of the following paragraph speaks for itself:

With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilised men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination; we build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed, and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilised societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.
From: Darwin, "The Descent of Man", Chapter V.

576 posted on 03/30/2002 7:48:37 PM PST by gore3000
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To: gore3000
With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilised men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination; we build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed, and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilised societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.

And nowhere in this paragraph does Darwin suggest what should be done regarding the situation for which he expresses concern. In fact, nowhere in the chapter where that paragraph occurs does he offer any such suggestions.
You claimed:
Yes it is and let me show you again where he encourages the killing of the weak, the imbecile, the unhealthy, even the poor:

However he does not encourage that anywhere -- at least nowhere that I've seen and you've not posted anything from him where such is encouraged. As such your claim is demonstratably false.

Further, Darwin's comments regarding the consequences of human medicine and war and other such factors on natural selection are his philosophy based on his interpretation of his theory. It is not part of the theory itself, it is what he believes are the consequences of the theory. That doesn't make them part of the theory (the theory itself does not predict what he stated, and he never put that in his theory) and it doesn't make eugenics a part of evolution. Evoluiton is biology. Eugenics is a social philosophy. Biology is a science concerned with what happens naturally with living organisms. Social philosophy is what people propose should be done (ie, doesn't just happen on its own) for what they believe to be a "good" society.

Your arguments regarding evolution are like trying to tie some negative philosophy derived from gravitational theory and arguing that it somehow negates gravity.
588 posted on 03/30/2002 8:17:50 PM PST by Dimensio
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