Posted on 12/25/2024 2:30:13 PM PST by Philsworld
Did Abraham Keep the Same Commandments God Gave to Moses?
Most religious teachers say that God’s commands given through Moses applied only to ancient Israel and are not for us today. But in drawing that conclusion, most of them overlook the full significance of what God said about Abraham’s obedience in Genesis 26:5, hundreds of years before God spoke to Moses and Israel at Mt. Sinai: “Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws” (NIV).
The Hebrew words God uses here are especially important. As The Expositor’s Bible Commentary explains regarding this verse: “The Lord then added a remarkable note: Abraham ‘kept my requirements [mismarti], my commands [miswotay], my decrees [huqqotay] and my laws [wetorotay]’ (v. 5).
“It is remarkable that this is precisely the way in which obedience to the Sinai Covenant is expressed in Deuteronomy 11:1: ‘Love the Lord your God and keep his requirements [mismarto], his decrees [huqqotayw], his laws [mispatayw] and his commands [miswotayw]’ . . .
“Thus Abraham is an example of one who shows the law written on his heart (Jeremiah 31:33). He is the writer’s ultimate example of true obedience to the law, the one about whom the Lord could say, ‘Abraham obeyed me’ (v. 5).
Abraham obeyed the same foundational spiritual laws that were given later to Israel. However, the symbolic tabernacle or temple ceremonies and rituals and Israel’s national administrative laws were not applicable in Abraham’s day. Nor are they necessary for individual Christians today, because a physical temple is no longer the center of our worship as it was in the ancient nation of Israel (John 4:19-21; Hebrews 9:9-10).
(Excerpt) Read more at ucg.org.za ...
Moral law can be a helpful designation if it is qualified to refer to those laws that express universal and timeless principles governing relationships. Obviously a person living at any given time has a moral responsibility to keep any applicable divine command, so in a broader sense all divine commands constitute what could be called moral laws. The Ten Commandments (Exod 20; Deut 5) are an extremely important expression of moral law in that they summarize or exemplify essential broad principles that are basic for the health of divine-human and human-human relationships, including the need to acknowledge God for who he is, respect for parents, respect for life, sexual purity, respect for the property of others, etc. However, the Ten Commandments are not the only expression of moral law in the Bible. For example, another moral law based on love appears in Exodus 23:9—“And you shall not oppress a stranger.”50 Furthermore, we should keep in mind that because moral law is as timeless as the character of God that it reflects, such law existed long before the Ten Commandments.
https://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/Gane-Gods-moral-law.pdf
——>Nothing in there that I could find about sabbath breaking.
Well, if you don’t believe that breaking God’s MORAL 10 commandment law is LAWLESSNESS, and you do it regardless, I guess you have nothing to worry about in the judgment. No, just kidding.
Do you consider yourself under the New Covenant of Jesus Christ?
“I wasn’t aware that circumcision was included in the 10 commandments.”
Reading isn’t your strong suit, is it?
Here was the question I posed: How does Matthew 5:17-19 not include circumcision when Christ spoke those words?
It is EXACTLY YOUR question that you asked me about the Sabbath being part of His sermon on the mount, with the word “Sabbath” replaced by “circumcision”.
You claim that this passage about the Law and the Prophets somehow supports that physical rest on the Sabbath is commanded by God to all people. I proved that is not true, using circumcision as an example. No one said circumcision is part of the Ten Commandments. But it is part of the Law and Prophets.
Try reading before posting nonsensical responses.
Nonsensical to you because you don't understand clear scripture.
Circumcision isn't MORAL law. God's kingdom was taken from the Jews. That covenant relationship is OVER, forever. It is now spiritual, of the heart. Spiritual circumcision for spiritual Israel, meaning those in Christ Jesus. The New Covenant.
Maybe you think circumcision is still binding?
1 Cor 7: 19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commandments is what counts.
Hebrews 10:16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them.
“Circumcision isn’t MORAL law. God’s kingdom was taken from the Jews. That covenant relationship is OVER, forever. It is now spiritual, of the heart. Spiritual circumcision for spiritual Israel, meaning those in Christ Jesus. The New Covenant.”
So, His promise to make a New Covenant with Israel was really a promise to make a New Covenant with a New and entirely different Israel?
Paul says otherwise:
Romans 11:1-5 NKJV
I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
God still has a faithful remnant of Israel which is comprised of Jewish people who follow Jesus. God always preserved a remnant and will restore national Israel again as He promised.
Romans 11:25-29 NKJV
For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
There is no way to interpret this passage that fits the replacement theology narrative. Your heretical doctrine of Sabbath-keeping infects and permeates your entire theological framework such that it is fatally and systemically flawed. It corrupts your ability to rightly divide the word of truth, explain Bible prophecy, especially regarding God’s promises to natural (i.e. “according to the flesh”) Israel, and even the simplicity of the Gospel. In short, when you twist some scriptures it leads to twisting others, to your destruction.
“Maybe you think circumcision is still binding?”
Circumcision of the heart is still required. The command to circumcise the flesh was only given to Abraham and his descendants. Gentiles were never required to be circumcised unless they converted to Judaism. But the apostles confirmed that converting to Judiasm is not a requirement for Gentiles to be saved. Indeed it would be a repudiation of the Gospel. However, neither should Jews who come to faith in Christ abandon the Law of Moses which does command kosher food, physical circumcision, and the outward observation of Sabbath keeping.
For Gentiles, these things are symbolic and spiritual. The prohibitions against murder, adultery, and idolatry apply to all people in both the inward heart and outward conformity to these commandments. But kosher foods are not required for Gentiles. When Peter saw the vision of unclean animals, it was not to tell him to abandon kosher dietary restrictions but to welcome Gentile believers into the congregation of saints without reservation.
Likewise, circumcision is not of the flesh but of the heart for Gentile believers (male and female alike).
And the Sabbath, which was never generally commanded at any time to any Gentiles or even specifically to specific Gentiles, is symbolic and spiritual in how it applies to Gentile believers. Hebrews says this. Colossians affirms that Gentiles are not bound by Jewish regulations about Sabbath keeping.
I’ve answered every question you’ve ever asked and you’ve ignored every answer as if you don’t bother to read them or the scriptures that prove my answers to be correct.
You persist in posting the same tired and false arguments that have already been disproven. And you constantly change the subject rather than answer the hard questions.
You seem to acknowledge that “circumcision... is of the heart” in your response. Yet you deny that the Sabbath is also of the heart. Both must be considered when you make the argument that Jesus did not come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. Why? Because the Law and the Prophets command both Sabbath keeping and circumcision. If Jesus did not “destroy the Sabbath” (in your words) He also did not “destroy circumcision” either. And if circumcision can apply spiritually without applying physically, so can the Sabbath.
If there is an external set of rules for Gentiles to follow regarding the Sabbath, why do you refuse to list them?
If I ask an observant Jew what is and is not allowed on the Sabbath, he can tell me. Why can’t you?
I’ll ask again:
What is the specific list of things Gentiles should or should not do on the Sabbath? Pick up sticks? Pick up their bed or bedsheets? Turn on a light? Can you walk a mile? Can you walk as much as you like as long as it’s within 2/3 of a mile from where you started your Sabbath? How much can you lift? Watch a movie? Listen to music? Is intercourse with your spouse permitted on the Sabbath? Can you drive a car? Ride a horse? Chase down your stray animal? Heal? Practice medicine? Pull a tooth?
Are you saying they weren’t born sinners?
No, I am not stating that at all. You didn’t understand the question. You stated “we were incapable of meeting His Commandments to us.”
I pointed out that Luke records what you stated is incorrect, unless you don’t consider Zechariah and Elizabeth as part of “us”.
Again, Luke 1:5— Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly.
You’ll want to start in Ezekiel 20 for a good overview of God’s problem with rebellious Israel. Especially starting in verse 11 and going to verse 32. I find in Ezekiel 22 an interesting parallel for Christinaity today:
Eze 22:26 Her priests have violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.
That’s the situation today...the priests of Christianity have hidden their eyes from God’s Sabbaths and as a result God is no longer held up as THE holy creator...he’s a harmless part of culture.
........
The problem,KC, is Old Israel in the Middle East has the same problem those Christian priests have..
Denying the Passover Lamb, the Son, isn’t going to help Israel keep His Sabbath’s.
They are all about Him, so those who deny the Son aren’t going to be worshipping the Father in Spirit and Truth..
Just the opposite, actually.
Old Israel finds themselves following Rome these days.
Almost like Daniel isn’t read in Judaism or Christianity these days
What is so difficult about being civil and non-condescending?
That having been said, my understanding of 1st century Judaism is that for a Gentile, circumcision was the final act in about a twelve month process of becoming Jewish. Therefore, much more was involved with circumcision than just the culminating physical act.
Absolutely! So, go ahead and hit me with your followup question.
Are you going to respond to the question I asked you about the New Covenant of Jesus Christ?
Here again is why I recommended studying Paul, especially Galatians, Romans and Hebrews.
In Hebrews 10:25, Paul says believers should meet regularly, He expands on that in many other scriptures.
In Romans 14:5 Paul says the particular day you meet doesn't matter "One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind."
So, out of convenience and/or tradition, it is fine for you to meet with fellow believers on Saturday for corporate worship. Just don't treat the particular day you meet as a commandment.
You are instructed to meet, the particular day is up to you and the believers you meet with to decide on.
Sorry but I've been running around. I thought I responded in post #251. Am I mistaken?
——>What is the specific list of things Gentiles should or should not do on the Sabbath...
If you want a list, there are plenty of articles on the internet about that by SDA’s, as guidelines.
The day is holy. And, it’s lawful to do good on the Sabbath. Conduct yourself accordingly. I don’t see what’s so hard to understand about that.
Am I allowed to flush the toilet?
Well, speaking of first-century Judiasers and the need to be civil, can you imagine dealing with those guys?
They were apparently looking over the bathroom stall to see who they needed to “convert”:
Galatians 2:4 NKJV
And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage).
Pretty scary.
My follow up question is: What’s the New Covenant?
LOL! One could say we've gotten a taste of it the past few days on this thread.
It is a better covenant Heb 7:22, established on better promises Heb 8:6.
Where the Old Covenant was written in stone, the New Covenant is written on hearts.
Entering the New Covenant is made possible only by faith in Christ.
Under the New Covenant, you have the opportunity to receive salvation as a free gift Eph 2:8-9. In turn, beleivers responsibility is to exercise faith in Jesus Christ who died as sacrifice for our sins and follow the Holy Spirit who lives within each believer Rom 8:9-11.
In a prior post you said you wouldn't fly an airplane on the sabbath.
How far will you drive your automobile on the sabbath?
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