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To: beancounter13; Elsie
Can you really disparage the Church of Rome without also disparaging Her Book (i.e. The Bible)? Without Rome, the Bible is merely text … like the Koran and the Book of Mormon.

Do you actually read what refutes your reasoning, or simply persevere in parroting perverse polemics? What part of "if souls are to follow all the judgments and discernment of leadership, or the magisterial stewards and authorities on doctrine, then you have invalidated the NT church" do you not understand? Even if Rome or the EO's (or others) gave us the Bible - which neither did - that does not mean she is to be followed in all her judgments, and cannot be reproved.

And as for Rome giving us the Bible, which came first, the 39 book canon we hold to as the OT, or the Catholic church? What came first, the RCC or a body of wholly God-inspired authoritative writings, established without an infallible magisterium, and which which provided the doctrinal and prophetic epistemological foundation for the NT church

As for the NT, the fallacious premise that an infallible magisterium being essential for the establishment of a canon, and that a magisterium is to be followed in all its other judgments also applies here. Meanwhile, it is very obvious that the Catholic church certainly did not write the NT, since as said, distinctive Catholic teachings are not manifest in the only wholly God-inspired, substantive, authoritative record of what the NT church believed (which is Scripture, in particular Acts through Revelation, which best shows how the NT church understood the gospels)

Moreover, as also said, scholarly disagreements over the canonicity (proper) of certain books continued down through the centuries and right into Trent, until it provided the first "infallible," indisputable canon in 1546 - after the death of Luther.

Of course, recently I have seen some Protestant Theologians suggest we should stop using the word ‘Inerrant’. I think they really want to discard the parts of scripture they don’t like.

So what? Who here is contending for such. Meanwhile, following your predominate leadership in this are means adopting a very liberal idea of inerrancy for over 60 years.

If you even support Vatican Two then you are part of a demeaned minority of RCs on FR.

123 posted on 07/11/2023 8:08:28 AM PDT by daniel1212 (As a damned+destitute sinner turn 2 the Lord Jesus who saves souls on His acct + b baptized 2 obey)
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To: daniel1212

I think I see the pebble you are trying to climb. The Roman Church is not the pope nor even the College of Cardinals. It is literally the millions of priests, bishops, and religious who have devoted their lives to the worship of God and the spread of the Good News. It is also the 1.2B people who look to these shepherds for guidance and instruction.

By comparison, the Protestant community is nothing.

The Protestant community is like the finger telling the body, “I don’t need you(Roman Church) because I have the head(Jesus Christ).”

Funny thing though: I have never seen a finger growing from a head.

Meanwhile the body looks at the finger and says, “it has caused me pain ever since Luther slammed it in the door, but I would rather leave it alone praying that it gets better than cut it off and watch it die.”

Do not all belong to Christ?

Why do you disparage your brother?


137 posted on 07/11/2023 6:15:19 PM PDT by beancounter13 (A Republic, if you can keep it.)
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