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To: CTrent1564
What do your table of contents say is the Canon of Scripture. When if you have a Table of contents, was that table of contents put together?

The putting together of the canon wasn't anything magical that Rome did. It was the consensus of the early church. The "canon" was being compiled and approved long before the Roman church put their stamp of approval on it.

For example Paul wrote:

1Ti 5:18  For the Scripture says, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE AN OX WHILE IT TREADS OUT THE GRAIN," and, "THE LABORER IS WORTHY OF HIS WAGES."

The first part of this is found in the Old Testament...but Paul also calls the second part "scripture" as well. And this appears (today) in Luke 10:7. So Paul at least consisidered and taught what Luke recorded as scripture.

Another example:

2Pe 3:15  and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,  2Pe 3:16  as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. 

Note that Peter lumps Paul's letters in with the rest of scripture.

In addition we also know that Paul's letters were circulated and considered authoritative by congregations other than those where they were sent.

Col 4:16  Now when this epistle is read among you, see that it is read also in the church of the Laodiceans, and that you likewise read the epistle from Laodicea. 

1Th 5:27  I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read to all the holy brethren.

So one should NOT have to grant authority to the Roman church for changing God's commandments simply because they approved of what the church had already compiled.

78 posted on 06/14/2023 11:49:51 AM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC

That is just cutting and pasting texts. It dodges the question. The consensus of the early Church, who was part of that Church? I can tell you 100% it did not involve people from North of the Alps. The NT Churches, there were 30 or so were only in Europe in 2 places, Italy and Greece.

Anyone who studies the canon of scripture will tell you there is no canonical list until the late 2nd century after Marcion, a Gnostic heretic tried to get the Church of Rome to adopt only a select set of books as canonical. He was excommunicated by Pius I, Bishop of Rome around 144AD. The first ECF to identify a 4 Canonical Gospel was Saint Irenaus around 180 AD (who was in communion with the Bishop of Rome). The Muratorian Fragment, the earliest canonical list, which is from the Church of Rome is a later 2nd century list which has 21/22 of the books that would be part of the 27 book NT canon.

The key to canonicity was is the book appropriate for the Liturgical worship in the Church, which was Eucharistic in its theology, that is the body and blood of Christ was being received.

At the time of the Council of Nicea in 325 AD, Eusebius of Caesarea in his Church History (Book 3, Chapter 25) gives the concise summary of the Canon. Only 21 books are Universally accepted, Revelation is highly debated, and many not all, accept many Churches accept Jude, James, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John.

At the same time when there was no Canon, the Council of Nicea in 325 gathered. Some 318 Bishops dealt with Arius and his Christological heresy, based on his interpretation of certain biblical text, and professed the Nicene Creed that Christ is God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God, begotten not made, consubstantial with the Father

The Latin-Roman Bishops and clergy were as follows. The only 1 from North of the Alps was from Southern France (Catholicism in union with Rome was there in 2nd), Hosius of Cordoba from Spain (Presided over the council and was one of the main writers of the Creed), a Bishop from Roman-North Africa, 1 from South Italy in Calabria and 1 from Roman-Illyricum along with 2 Priests that were the Pope’s personal reps.

So it is quite clear that all of you North of the Alps folks were not even part of the Church. All the orthodox Tradition you all hold to you got it from the Church of Rome, which evangelized everything from Poland (inclusive) all the way to the British Isles, which is where most American religious sects get their origins from, Rapture protestants, Oneness Pentecostals, JW, Adventist, Mormons, all have their roots from English/Scottish/Welsh Protestantism.

The early Church that canonized the bible in the 4th century was the Catholic Church in communion with the Pope/Bishop of Rome. Period!


108 posted on 06/14/2023 12:04:08 PM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: DouglasKC

Tell me the date the early Church 100% compiled the 27 book NT that you protestants, assuming you are a Trinitarian protestant, at least have the orthodox doctrine of God, or if you are one of these anti-Trinitarian sects that split from Protestantism..

Give you the history and development of the NT canon. Who was involved, times, dates, etc


114 posted on 06/14/2023 12:06:31 PM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: DouglasKC

1 Tim 5:18 is Saint Paul quoting from Deut 25:4

2 Peter 3:15 only means that the Church that received 2 Peter were in possession of some Pauline epistles. Nothing more or nothing less.

Col 4:16 mentions that 1 epistle of Saint Paul, the one to the Laodiceans is to be read at the Church of Corinth. But here is the problem, that Letter to the Church of Laodicea in the Roman provinces of Asia (modern Western Turkey) (also mentioned in Rev 1:1) did not survive.

1 Thes 5:27 is Saint Paul telling the Church at Thessalonica (Greek Church) that this letter is to be read to everyone in that Church.

So my response is above, tell me again how do the passages you cite get you to the 27 book NT that the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church (14 autocephalous Churches in communion with the EP of Constantinopile), the Oriental Orthodox (Coptics in Egypt, Armenian Orthodox, Ethiopian and Eritrean Orthodox, Syrian Orthodox and Syro-Malankara Indian Orthodox) and the Assyrian Church of the East all hold to, along with all Historic protestants (Anglicans, Lutherans, Reformed, Presbyterians) and other mainline protestants that are related to those, like Methodist and Baptist from the Church of England, etc.


159 posted on 06/14/2023 12:31:42 PM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: DouglasKC

Good Post!
Also Paul references about 500, some whom were still living, who can attest to the authenticity of the written gospels. Long before the Roman church claimed credit, everybody already had decided which books were authentic.


402 posted on 06/15/2023 12:35:30 PM PDT by NorthStarOkie (Satan doesn't have to lie if he can confuse us about the truth.)
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