Posted on 06/14/2023 10:48:04 AM PDT by vespa300
Most Christians assume that Sunday is the biblically approved day of worship. The Roman catholic church protests that it transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday.
(Excerpt) Read more at romeschallenge.com ...
I agree, the deception started in the 16th century with the sola-scriptura rebels. Take the notion of the Holy Eucharist, Luther, Calvin and Zwingli all held to sola-scriptura. Yet, Luther had a view of Christ is present with the Bread and wine, closer to the orthodox Apostolic faith held by all the early Apostolic Churches with direct connections to the Apostles, The Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox (i.e. Coptic Church in Egypt) and Assyrian Church of the East.
Calvin held a spiritual presence in the eucharist and Zwingli had nothing to do with presence at all, only Memorial meal.
So the 3 most famous protestant rebels, all sola-scriptura adherents all had extremely divergent views on the Holy Eucharist. Baptism, is it believers baptism or infant? They differed, does baptism give grace or is it just a sign of grace already given, etc.
So yes, since the 16th century the protestant rebels have resulted in all sorts of groups and sects, all saying we are bible-alone. Yep, I actually agree with you.
But again which of those groups do you belong to. You have to belong to some local community that has a pastor who either formed his own local church group, maybe is affiliated loosely with some other group, etc.
Yes, I suppose the Seventh Day Adventists are right, but how do we know which day is the sixth and which the seventh? Was anyone keeping records from the very beginning?
>>>Actually Vespa
I’m more Messianic Jew than anything
Else.
Problems with that?>>>
Why would I have a problem with anything you are. This is about Rome’s challenge to all Sunday keeping protestants. I think she’s brilliant here with her theology. Better than the weak shallow new covenant nonsense. The new covenant is older than the old covenant because it is the everlasting covenant....salvation by grace, faith in Christ alone.
New Covenant had to get out from under that Sabbath so they dont even teach the Ten Commandments anymore....until I steal their car or they say abortion is a sin. They play picky choosy with their commandments.
Paul was a Jew so he preached Christ to the Jews. When rebuffed he went to those he was to preach to...The Gentiles.
Paul also circumcised Timmothy because his father was a Greek but his mother was a Jew. And he NEVER required circumcision of the Gentiles. He had a different commission from the 12.
Galatians 2:
but contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8(for he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Acts describes what the disciples were already doing. What Paul would be accused of is not a determinant of when Christians would celebrate.
The Israelites weren't commanded to honor the Sabbath until Moses received the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:10). The Babylonian "Sa-ba-tu" predated Hebrew by hundreds of years.
>>>Yes, I suppose the Seventh Day Adventists are right, but how do we know which day is the sixth and which the seventh? Was anyone keeping records from the very beginning?>>>
That’s a good question and yes, I believe Seventh day Adventist are correct on all of their theology. Judgement, death, 2nd coming, Sabbath....even diet.
But our Jewish friends have been keeping the Same Seventh day Sabbath since Christ’s day and before....over 4000 years. So there’s that. But also, we know the weekly 7 day cycle has never changed. Never. Ever. If you do research, you will see tha’ts true. Even the US Naval observatory which is in charge of calender and times admits it.
Dates may have changed but never the 7 day weekly cycle. The word for Saturday in over 100 languages is Sabbath. It’s God’s gift to mankind, to come apart one day a week, his holy day., a day HE made holy. to commemorate his creation.he wrote it in stone with his own finger ..it’s from Genesis to Revelation and it will be in the new earth...Read Isaiah 66.
Anyways...more and more people around the world are accepting the Sabbath, its an end time repair of the breach. It’s a blessing too.....the Bible promises a blessing to anyone who honors the Sabbath.
Isn’t it funny....it’s the only commandment God said to “remember” and it’s the one most forgotton. Thank you.
“Keep Sunday? Not so! Those who worship on Saturday keep “the day”.”
No. Nothing Yeshua did or said negated, nullified or changed any of the Ten Commandments.
The 4th Commandment says: Remember the Sabbath day and keep it Holy.
Jesus life, death and resurrection did not change that. If that was not true His disceiples in Jerusalem would have not continued to keep the Lord’s day - the Sabbath, AFTER Christ’s resurrection, which the New Testament attests that they did.
There is no 8th day. Where did that come from? Every scriptural reference about Jesus’ resurrection has it occurring on the first day of the week.
, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. You are not to do any work—neither you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your livestock, nor any foreigner who lives among you.
= = =
I’ll go a little wild. A day is as a thousand years.
If creation was 6000 years ago, we are in the 7000th year.
Or, the Sabbath, being 1000 years long.
In Christ, we are to enter God’s rest, not doing any work.
In Christ, we can do not work to earn our salvation.
We are to rest, in Christ. All the time during the ‘7th day’.
Every day, here in Earth, is the Sabbath.
Oh, and if you start keeping the Sabbath out of love and gratitude, not burden and law......be prepared to be hated by a lot of people. Even Christians.
Well, I guess the argument is, God changed it, in Scripture, but it has do be discovered by good and necessary understanding and inference. There is no one direct command saying “I now change the 4th commandment to reference Sunday instead of Saturday.”
The scripture verses cited are the undergirding for this belief. Whether you think that they, taken as a whole, do in fact indicate a change made by God, who alone has the authority to do so.
It reminds me of the change from not eating unclean animals to eating them. Old Testament worship/ritual cleanness laws were specific, direct, and particular. They were repeated. Just like the sabbath laws.
But the dietary laws were changed very specifically and directly, repeated three times, in Acts. Whereas the Sabbath laws are changed in a murkier fashion and that makes it harder to understand, IMO.
Yuppers...
Scooter boy is on a
Power Drink or something!
“Not like Protestants who twist, invent, turn scripture to try and make a Bible case for Sunday. “
I have never heard great Protestant theolgy to defend the change of the Sabbath to Sunday. It was just one point they were lazy on during the reformatio, accepting Sunday as “tradition”. The reformation Protesant Churches and their descendent Churhces were eclipsed by later Protestants, like the 7th day ZAdventists and others, who went back to the bible and there they find no biblical reason for calling Sunday the Sabbath, for any Christian.
>>>>Yuppers...
Scooter boy is on a
Power Drink or something!>>>
hahahaha....love it like I love the Sabbath. Jesus said he made the Sabbath for man! Awesome! thank u.
I’m waiting for a Doctors appointment
.
So saying, "But, wait a second. Nowhere in the NT does it say that worship or Sabbath should be on Sunday instead of Saturday. Therefore it should still be done on Saturday" ... would be about as ridiculous as if someone said, "But, the NT doesn't remove the OT law that says menstruating women can't touch anyone or anything for 7 days, and if someone touches something she touches, he must exclude himself from everybody else until the evening." (Leviticus 15:19-23)
Where does it end? Are we to do that with all OT doctrine that's not specifically abrogated by NT doctrine?
>>>I have never heard great Protestant theolgy to defend the change of the Sabbath to Sunday. >>>>
Good people...bad theology. God loves all people, even those with bad theology. Amen.
That is simply not biblically correct.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
Gen 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Jesus affirmed this basic fact and tells us that God created the Sabbath for MANKIND.
Mar 2:27 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath."
It SEEMS as if the knowledge of the Sabbath was there at the very beginning but was lost to Israel at some point. But it was re-introduced and commanded BEFORE the ten commandments were given:
Exo 16:25 Then Moses said, "Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the LORD; today you will not find it in the field.
Exo 16:26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none."
Exo 16:27 Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none.
Exo 16:28 And the LORD said to Moses, "How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?
Note this was BEFORE they got to Mt. Sinai and BEFORE the ten commandments were revealed. God had revealed LAWS and commandments before MT. Sinai. In fact then, God's Sabbath remains outside of any covenant that God may have made or did make with Israel or anyone else. It exists as part of the structure of the universe as Exodus chapter 2 shows us.
>>>Where does it end? Are we to do that with all OT doctrine that’s not specifically abrogated by NT doctrine?>>>
You got it. I don’t do away with the only Bible Jesus ever had. New Covenant theology is rooted on error. Jew and Law in the old.....grace in the new. The everlasting covenant is the gospel and it’s in both.
New Covenant has a misunderstanding of the moral law, the Ten Commandments and the ceremonials law or shadows written by Moses in a book. When your foundation is faulty, your theology is too.....amen. Good people....bad theology.
Ezekiel 46:1
Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.
New Moon Day- gate open
6 work days- gate shut
Sabbath- gate open.
1+6+1
No Roman Sun Day,Moon Day,Tiws Day,Woden’s Day, Thor’s Day,Frigg Day or Saturn Day, needed..
No need for Roman January, February,March, April,May,June,July,August, September, October, November December, either.
Just the New Moon Day
Then 6 work days
Then the 7th Day Sabbath..
In accordance with the scriptures..
The world, including Islam, Judaism and Christianity( Mother and daughters) walking out bible prophecy every Roman false day, false month, false year.
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