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To: Salvation
"Please pray to the Holy Spirit and your Guardian Angel for true guidance back to the church."

And Prayer to created beings in Heaven (PTCBIH) certainly does not come from the Bible and the NT church of it. Nowhere in Scripture do we see any believers engaging in prayer to created beings in Heaven , or instructed to do so, despite the Spirit inspiring the recording of over 200 prayers by believers, and despite this being a most basic practice, and despite there always being plenty of created beings to pray to, and occasions for it since the Fall. Yet the only prayers or offerings in Scripture to anyone else in the spiritual world is by pagans, including to the only Queen of Heaven see therein.

Failing to find even one example of PTCBIH, and with instruction on who to address in prayer to Heaven only being that of to the Lord, thus you must resort to eisegetical extrapolation, presuming those in Heaven can not only hear/understand all prayers from earth, mental or oral (which only God is shown able to do), but that we are to address them, though again the Holy Spirit never mentions even one example of doing so.

Meanwhile, from what I recall, any two-way communication btwn created beings in Heaven and earth required both to somehow be present in the same location, and was not that of asking them to intercede to God for them, and was very rare.

Note that elders and angels offering prayers (Rv. 5:8; 8:4,5) in memorial - like as in Lv. 2:2,15,16; 24:7; Num. 5:15; 16:9, "an offering of memorial" cf. Num. 16:9, - is not that of them being addressed in prayer, nor does it indicate that they had heard them previously, nor is it described as being a regular postal service, but it is one of the things which is a preclude to the final judgments upon the earth, testifying to the persecutions of the saints by the devil and world that it fit to be punished.

For when "He maketh inquisition for blood, he remembereth them: he forgetteth not the cry of the humble. (Psalms 9:12; cf. Genesis 4:10) and before judgment God brings forth testimony of the warrant for it, which includes the cry of those martyred souls under the altar in Rv. 6:9, and with odors representing prayer, akin to Leviticus 6:15, "burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour, even the memorial of it, unto the Lord." (Leviticus 6:15)

Nor can Prayer to created beings in Heaven be extrapolated from general commands to pray or from requests for pray from other believers on earth, for this ignores the God-ordained divisions btwn realms. Which is why Christ had to come down to this earth, while only God is shown able to hear all prayer from Heaven, which is a Divine privilege and attribute nowhere shown to be given to humans.

The only heavenly intercessor btwn man and God is said to be Jesus Christ, (1 Timothy 2:5) and by Him believers have immediate spiritual access with humble contrite boldness into the holy of holies in Heaven to pray to the Lord God, (Hebrews 10:19) while the Spirit within believers cries out “Abba, Father,” (Galatians 4:6) and not “Mama, Mother.”

And believers kneeling before a statue and praising the entity it represented in the unseen world, beseeching such for Heavenly help, and making offerings to them, and giving glory and titles and ascribing attributes to such which are never given in Scripture to created beings (except to false gods) - including having the uniquely Divine power and glory to hear and respond to virtually infinite numbers of prayers individually addressed to them - would constitute worship in Scripture.

Moses, put down those rocks! I was only engaging in hyper dulia, not adoring her. Can't you tell the difference?


19 posted on 05/13/2022 6:36:48 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save U + be baptized + follow Him!)
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To: daniel1212

Holy Cow!


79 posted on 05/14/2022 7:03:39 AM PDT by Scrambler Bob (My /s is more true than your /science (or you might mean /seance)gg g)
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To: daniel1212

As always, you are spot on.
I learn so much from your comments.

It is interesting to discern the nature of the Lord’s church in the Bible.
Were we to visit one, we would find that
...each congregation was independent; no hierarchy.
...each congregation was lead by elders.
...the elders were men, as were the deacons and preachers.
...members of the congregation led prayers
...preachers were not necessarily clergy, just souls who know the Word.
...members were believers who confessed their faith, who repented and who were immersed [baptized] as adults.
...the congregation met for worship on Sunday.
...the Lord’s Supper was celebrated each Sunday.
...worship in Spirit and truth (truth being congruent with scripture.)

What we would not find...
...altars.
...clergy.
...man-made tradition as doctrine.
...instrumental musical instruments.
...celebration of Christmas and Easter.
...a scripted worship service.
- - - - - -
There were four “denominations” in Corinth: Paul’s, Peter’s; Apollos’ and the Lord’s church. Paul condemns three of them. He teaches that the human founder of a denomination must be the one who is crucified for the sins of the members. The implication is that any Christian congregation that was founded by a man is a counterfeit and impotent to save.


108 posted on 05/14/2022 10:57:28 AM PDT by NorthStarOkie (In all that you do, glorify the name of the Lord.)
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