Catholics Don't Believe You Can Earn Your Way to Heaven

Tradition | 03-06-2022 | CharlesOconnell

[Elsie]

What have I got reversed in time?

Uh...

Luke's history comes LATER THAN Matthews writing.

[Elsie]

Any denomination that claims to be a sole repository of truth needs to be avoided like the plague.

So should any individual.

[Elsie]

There ya go with the Scriptures again!

Doncha know we Catholics realize that there ain’t enough paper in the world to record everything that Jesus did?

Catholic_Wannabe_Dude(Hail Mary!!)

[Elsie]

*cough* *cough* Phil *cough* *cough*

[Elsie]

*cough* *cough* Joseph Smith’s bunch *cough* *cough*

[Elsie]

*cough* *cough* Muslims *cough* *cough*

[Elsie]

By the way, have you, Elsie, ever been water-baptized as a determined regenerated believer into a life of discipleship, as was commanded by Jesus to be performed by (an) officer(s) of His church, just prior to His ascent to His place at the Father's side?

Heck; I'm still trying to find out what 'righteousness' was to be fulfilled by JESUS being baptized.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

*cough* *cough* Falseworld *cough* *cough*

[kosciusko51]

Your two sentences are contradictory. The fact that it is unclear if the were young children or babies in his household does make it hard to be as emphatic as your are in your declaration that no infants were baptized.

In fact, you must infer that his household *did not* include young children or babies to make your point.

It is interesting that Paul compares circumcision to baptism. Another inference, but interesting nonetheless.

Colossians 2:11-12 (ESV) 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.

[Elsie]

It sure didn't seem all that important to Paul!!

 

1 Corinthians 1:15-17

 

15 so no one can say that you were baptized into my name.

16 Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that I do not remember if I baptized anyone else.

17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with words of wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

[Luircin]

I wonder if his household had young children in it...

***

I would have to say that the odds are pretty good, considering the time.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

—> does make it hard to be as emphatic as your are in your declaration that no infants were baptized.

All we know is that Scripture has no clear record of an infant being baptized.

[Luircin]

It depends entirely on what you see baptism as, I think.

If you see it as a work you have to do in order to get saved, then that’s a contradiction of Scripture.

On the other hand, if you see it as a work that you do in order to show your devotion to God after being saved, that’s also a contradiction of Scripture because of the way it speaks of baptism as playing a role in salvation.

The proper understanding, from what I’ve read of Scripture, is that baptism is a gift from God that merges the spiritual with the physical as one of many reminders and assurances of salvation.

That’s why infant baptism is still practiced in my church, because both baptism and faith are gifts from God that we shouldn’t be denying to even our smallest members. They don’t require an act of the human will; it’s God at work.

So to believe that it’s impossible to be saved without being baptized is wrong, but denying getting baptized is to deny part of God’s gift of salvation and thus putting someone in danger of denying the whole.

At least that’s an explanation from what I’ve read; I’m too blasted sick at the moment to keep my concentration on much more right now.

[Luircin]

I have my doubts that an entire household would NOT include children, considering the definition of ‘household’ in the time of the Apostles...

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Sorry you’re under the weather!

Is it the Chyna Coof?

🙏🏼 Father, together we lift up our brother Luircin. Please heal him, bless him and comfort him. May you guide him and restore his health quickly.

[Luircin]

I dunno if it was the coof; I didn’t want to take a test in order to play into my family’s fears. But I still had my senses of smell and taste and was able to breathe more or less fine.

Just pain in my chest and throat and expelling a LOT of mucus. Also lost my voice for three days.

Things fortunately are looking up now; I can swallow without pain, speak clearly, and my appetite’s back!

So thanks to God for that, and continued prayers for the rest of the recovery to be fast are much appreciated.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Just pain in my chest and throat and expelling a LOT of mucus. Also lost my voice for three days.

Man! that sounds like the hideous "grandchild-transferred" virus that got me!!!

[MHGinTN]

Amen

[imardmd1]

. . . water baptism does not confer spiritual life any more that circumcision did.

Of course, that is what I wrote. The moment The Heavenly Father discerns that one has agreed to trust Jesus so fully that he/she was willing to become the sole possession of His Son Jesus, that person is psrdoned of all sin, declared judicially "Not guilty," is graciously gifted by God with irrevocable eternal absolute life, and made a receptacle of the Holy Spirit Who becomes Resident with that person in the same physical body. In that recognized instant of never-ending belief one is Spirit-baptized into the Heavenly Church of the Firstborn. But in the worldly temporal sphere, he/she is not yet a member of a local church assembly, which should be his/her place of worship, learning, and service, a member of the Company of The Committed (Ones).

At that point, as a newly born servant of Jesus, his/her first duty as commanded by their Master is to be inducted as a disciple into the ranks of a regularly meeting assembly of Christians by the rite of water baptism, a rite similar to ritual cleansing in the mikvah of a synagogue; that is, by full immersion. That was the same way that His chosen disciples baptized new followers, not into repentance as John did, but as believers in and followers of Jesus as the Messiah, the Lamb of God Who was to take away the sins of the world (see John 3:22-23). Actually, this baptism is meant to involve nuch water, not merely wet fingers of the person conducting the rite.

[imardmd1]

So replying to what I couched in precise terms is too hard for you to understand and respond positively? I thought more highly of you, Els.