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Catholics Don't Believe You Can Earn Your Way to Heaven
Tradition | 03-06-2022 | CharlesOconnell

Posted on 03/06/2022 11:16:06 AM PST by CharlesOConnell

A man commits a serious crime, then he gets released. He has "paid his debt to society". But wait a minute, he's only ready for the half-way house. He's unlikely to get a prestigious job in his new prison suit coat, or any job at all; he has civil impediments, he can't vote or hold certain offices. His crime was serious enough that he won't be presumed to have been completely rehabilitated until he performs a notable service to society, or at least spends many years on the straight and narrow, so that his crime can be truly overlooked or forgotten.

In Catholic faith, your "debt to society" is paid by Jesus Christ on Calvary. It's called "eternal punishment", without Christ it keeps you from going to heaven. Supposing that you do take advantage of His sacrifice, you're truly sorry, have a firm purpose of amendment, if you relapse, you go again for forgiveness (to the Sacrament of Confession).

But your sin leaves a strong trace at another layer of impurity called "temporal punishment due to sin", like the civil impediments facing the half-way house prisoner. Because "nothing impure can enter heaven", there is a place or a state, a condition of purification to render you fit for heaven after Christ has finally saved you from hell. The Catholic Church calls it purgatory.

(Where is it in the bible? Where is the word Trinity in the bible? Where does it say that you only need a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Many valid principles aren't stated explicitly in the bible, but it does say to "hold fast to the traditions you have learned, whether by word or by letter", because much of the Gospel wasn't written down, as Jesus only wrote in the sand, the majority of the Gospel was taught from word to ear to people who couldn't afford expensive books, the exceptions were what tended to get written down. But the implication that there is a purgatory, is contained in the bible--see the comments.)

The ex-con can receive a pardon or commutation of his probation from a Governor, if he performs some heroic deed, saving numerous lives, or, like Chuck Colson, performs a long-lasting, valuable community service helping numerous people who can't help themselves.

In the Catholic Church there are 2 ways for the residual, temporal effects due to sin to be expiated: suffering in this life, or after life, undergoing purifying suffering along with other people who will finally be saved, but have to suffer for long without the vision of God--that is what causes them their pain.

Their suffering isn't meritorious enough to grant their release, the saints in heaven and those on earth suffering and practicing virtue can pray for the suffering souls in purgatory. In no way is their release by slow transfer of suffering or practice of virtue, "buying heaven". It's a long, excruciating process.

How the misunderstanding arose that Catholics think they can buy their way into heaven, is involved with history more than 500 years old. For a millennium of Christendom between roughly 410 and 1410, there was a Medieval civilization with harmony between faith and government.

Many small farmers would cluster around the manor house of a military lord who would protect them, in exchange for a certain fixed obligation of labor and agricultural produce. In most cases, those "serfs" had much more leisure than factory workers of the industrial revolution; there were a large number of holy days without work, and except for planting and harvesting, there were long stretches of idle time.

Another large sector of the economy surrounded monasteries, where the monks developed most of the farming practices that stabilized the serfs and their manorial lords. The monks who worked those monastic lands were sworn to poverty, so that monasteries built up large accumulations of economic value over decades and centuries of labor.

At the beginning, when lands were being cleared and put into production there weren't prominent town fairs ruled by merchants and bankers. Money wasn't used for sustenance, not even much barter occurred, life was mostly agrarian.

Charity was woven into the economy of monasteries. It was estimated that you only need travel 12 miles in medieval England between monasteries, where you could get a meal and minimal lodging for free, based on need. And the charity was also spiritual, including the ancient Catholic principle of prayer for the dead, which is biblical. (See "prayer for the dead" in the original King James Bible in the comment.)

There were foundations and benefices for praying for the dead, that allowed a person of means to support monasteries' charitable works, and in proportional response the monks would pray for the souls of the donors.

It happened at the close of the middle ages, that militarily strong nobles cast their eyes on the labor value accumulated by the poverty-sworn monks of the monasteries, which those nobles perceived as monetary wealth, especially where gold and jewels had been donated by the devout to adorn churches.

(Protestant writer William Cobbett wrote in his 1824 "A History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland", an anecdote, that an incredibly valuable, hand illustrated bible was stripped of it's bejeweled, gold cover, the much more valuable hand-illumined manuscript, thrown in the mud and trampled by horses hooves by raiders suppressing the monasteries in Henry VIII's England.)

A new religion growing up around this seizure of monastic lands and valuables, that sought to discredit the Catholic Church, spread the black legend that the "sale of indulgences" was abusive. But this was very exceptional. Today the stipend of a Mass said for the dead is $10.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholicbashing; cult; dontbelieve; indulgences; praytomary
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To: Steve_Seattle

That is not exactly accurate. You are saved ONLY by Faith in Christ as your Savior. The “Faith without works is dead” passage doesn’t mean that the good works are also required. It means if there are no good works, you demonstrate that you have no Faith. Those with Faith follow and obey Christ’s teachings.


21 posted on 03/06/2022 1:40:53 PM PST by GingisK
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To: DannyTN

Amen.


22 posted on 03/06/2022 1:58:25 PM PST by bigcat32
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To: GingisK

Nope, read the sheep and goats passage in Matthew. People are condemned by their actions and lack of actions.

“Faith without works is dead” pretty plain scripture. To try and divorce faith and works has never been the teaching of the church.


23 posted on 03/06/2022 2:10:30 PM PST by Texas_Guy
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To: roving

Except for what Jesus told his Apostles in the upper room after the resurrection. He explicitly gave them power to forgive sins. They were the middle men.


24 posted on 03/06/2022 2:11:58 PM PST by Texas_Guy
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To: Texas_Guy

We shall simply disagree on this one. We’ll settle it later. Much later. ;-D


25 posted on 03/06/2022 2:41:14 PM PST by GingisK
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To: Texas_Guy

That same power to forgive sins is yours as well.


26 posted on 03/06/2022 2:41:47 PM PST by GingisK
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To: DannyTN

Don’t give up your day job to be a theologian.


27 posted on 03/06/2022 2:44:15 PM PST by oldbill
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To: CharlesOConnell

I love these threads.
It really brings out the anti-Catholic bigots on FreeRepublic.


28 posted on 03/06/2022 2:49:50 PM PST by oldbill
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To: Texas_Guy
"“Faith without works is dead” pretty plain scripture. To try and divorce faith and works has never been the teaching of the church."

Indeed, as even Luther also formally taught. Yet by even proabortion, prohomosexual public figures being manifestly considered members in life and in death, besides a less liberal majority, Rome signals that this is what is meant by faithfulness.

29 posted on 03/06/2022 2:57:39 PM PST by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save U + be baptized + follow Him!)
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To: Skywise
"And the book of Tobit, that tacitly allows for indulgences, is included in the Catholic Bible but not the Protestant one."

As if one should believe such a fantastic tale. Being about a women, Sarah, who has lost seven husbands because Asmodeus, the demon of lust, and "the worst of demons," abducts and kills every man she marries on their wedding night before the marriage can be consummated!

And about a man, Tobias, who was sleeping with his eyes open while birds dropped dung into in his eyes (sound sleeper!) and blinded him. And who later is attacked by a fish leaping out of the river to devour him! But Raphael has him capture it and later he burns the fish’s liver and heart to drive away the demon Asmodeus away to Upper Egypt [let the Coptics deal with him?], enabling Tobias and Sarah to finally consummate his marriage.

Which is besides Tobit 12:9, “almsgiving delivers from death, and it will purge away every sin.”

30 posted on 03/06/2022 2:57:45 PM PST by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save U + be baptized + follow Him!)
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To: CharlesOConnell; ConservativeMind; ealgeone; Mark17; BDParrish; fishtank; boatbums; Luircin; ...
"Catholics Don't Believe You Can Earn Your Way to Heaven"

Meaning it does, as meaning the baptized are justified due to actual becoming holy (as the act itself of baptism makes one inwardly just), and merit eternal life "by God's grace." At length:

Basically, what is the Roman Catholic teaching on salvation?

The RC answer is "salvation by grace," but which means salvation by grace thru merit, that by the grace of God one becomes actually good enough to be with God. And which is akin to salvation as under the law, needing to reach a standard of perfection, except that according to Catholicism, more grace is given to actually attain to an even higher standard than that of the Law, and thereby meriting eternal life. However, since this is enabled by grace, then it is said to not be in conflict with salvation by grace thru faith, not of works (of the Law), and with merit being under grace, (which it is) and thus differentiated from earning. (CCC 2025) 

Rather than the believer being accounted righteousness by faith (Romans 4:5; 10:10) which faith purifies the heart in the washing of regeneration when one effectually believes the gospel, (Acts 10:43; 15:7-9; Titus 3:5) and which results in the fruit of obedience/holiness, (Romans 6:22) and which evidences that such are believers and which effectual faith God rewards the justified for, (1 Co. 3:8ff: but not that the believer attained his salvific justified acceptance with God due to his own holiness), the RC process of salvation begins at baptism which act itself (ex opere operato) actually make one righteous enough so that the baptized could go to Heaven if he died right then, before the sin nature that remains makes it manifest that he is not fit to enter Heaven, and which thus (usually) necessitates Purgatory, so that he may once again become good enough to be with God. To wit (emphasis throughout is mine): 

Baptism is a bath that purifies, justifies, and sanctifies. (CCC 1227) The Most Holy Trinity gives the baptized sanctifying grace, the grace of justification... (CCC 1266) Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. (CCC 1992) The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift...infused by the Holy Spirit into our soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. It is the sanctifying or deifying grace received in Baptism. (CCC 1999) 

Although the sinner is justified by the justice of Christ, inasmuch as the Redeemer has merited for him the grace of justification (causa meritoria), nevertheless he is formally justified and made holy by his own personal justice and holiness (causa formalis).” (Catholic Encyclopedia>Sanctifying Grace) 

Thus it is believed that the newly baptized, who are thus inwardly just, formally justified and made holy by their own personal justice and holiness, would go to Heaven if they died before they sin: 

By virtue of our apostolic authority, we define the following: According to the general disposition of God, the souls of all the saints . . . and other faithful who died after receiving Christ's holy Baptism (provided they were not in need of purification when they died, . . .) have been, are and will be in heaven, in the heavenly Kingdom and celestial paradise with Christ, joined to the company of the holy angels. (CCC 1023) 

However, since the unholy sinful Adamic nature is all too alive and manifests itself in these "inwardly just" (righteous souls), meaning that unless   they died having  attained to the level of practical perfection needed, then they are in in need of purification when they die:

Yet certain temporal consequences of sin remain in the baptized , such as suffering, illness, death, and such frailties inherent in life as weaknesses of character, and so on, as well as an inclination to sin that Tradition calls concupiscence. .. (CCC 1264) 

And thus, what flows from the original error of believing man must actually become good enough to be with God (rather than faith being counted/imputed for righteous, - Rm. 4:5 - and with obedience and holiness being evidential fruit of regenerating faith) is that of the doctrine of RC Purgatory, by which, besides atoning for sins not sufficiently expiated on earth, serves to make the baptized good enough to be with God. 

The Catholic Encyclopedia also states that St. Augustine "describes two conditions of men; "some there are who have departed this life, not so bad as to be deemed unworthy of mercy, nor so good as to be entitled to immediate happiness " etc. (City of God XXI.24.)  

And thus by the close of the fourth century was taught "a place of purgation..from which when purified they "were admitted unto the Holy Mount of the Lord". For " they were "not so good as to be entitled to eternal happiness ". 

One "cannot approach God till the purging fire shall have cleansed the stains with which his soul was infested." (Catholic Encyclopedia>Purgatory) 

All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. (CCC 1030) 


"The purpose of purgatory is to bring you up the level of spiritual excellence needed to experience the full-force presence of God." (Jimmy Akin, How to Explain Purgatory to Protestants). 

"Every trace of attachment to evil must be eliminated, every imperfection of the soul corrected." Purification must be complete..." "This is exactly what takes place in Purgatory." — John Paul II, Audiences, 1999; http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/audiences/1999/documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_04081999.html 

Catholic professor Peter Kreeft states, 

"...we will go to Purgatory first, and then to Heaven after we are purged of all selfishness and bad habits and character faults." Peter Kreeft, Because God Is Real: Sixteen Questions, One Answer, p. 224

However, this premise of perfection of character for final salvation eliminates the newly baptized from entering Heaven (if they died before they sinned), since while innocent (not that the act of baptism actually regenerates, as  Catholicism teaches), yet they have not yet attained to "spiritual excellence," to  elmination of "every trace of attachment to evil," to "perfection of the soul," to the level of practical holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. 

And this premise would also exclude the contrite criminal of Luke 23:43 from being with Christ at death, yet who was told by the Lord that he would be with Christ in Paradise that day. And likewise imperfect Paul, (Philippians 3:13) who attested that to be absent from the body was to be present with the Lord. (2 Corinthians 5:7; cf. Philippians 1:23) And indeed it would exclude all believers who were told that they would be forever with the Lord if He returned in their lifetime (1 This. 4:17) though they were still undergoing growth in grace, as was Paul. 

In contrast, wherever Scripture clearly speak of the next conscious reality for believers then it is with the Lord, (Lk. 23:43 [cf. 2Cor. 12:4; Rv. 2:7]; Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17

And rather than Purgatory conforming souls to Christ to inherit the kingdom of God, the next transformative experience that is manifestly taught is that of being made like Christ in the resurrection. (1Jn. 3:2; Rm. 8:23; 1Co 15:53,54; 2Co. 2-4) At which time is the judgment seat of Christ And which is the only suffering after this life, which does not begin at death, but awaits the Lord's return, (1 Corinthians 4:5; 2 Timothy. 4:1,8; Revelation 11:18; Matthew 25:31-46; 1 Peter 1:7; 5:4) and is the suffering of the loss of rewards (and the Lord's displeasure!) due to the manner of material one built the church with. But which one is saved despite the loss of such, not because of. (1 Corinthians 3:8ff

Note also that the tradition-based Eastern Orthodox reject RC Purgatory, among some other substantial RC distinctives  

In addition, the whole premise that suffering itself perfects a person is specious, since testing of character requires being able to choose btwn alternatives, and which this world provides. Thus it is only this world that Scripture peaks of here development of character, such as "Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations." (1 Peter 1:6) The Lord Jesus, in being "made perfect" (Hebrews 2:10) as regards experientially  "in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin" (Hebrews 4:15) was subjected to this in the life.

Meanwhile the salvation by holiness via baptism and purgatory are all under the RC rubric of salvation by grace thru merit: 

The theological virtues are the foundation of Christian moral activity; they animate it and give it its special character. They inform and give life to all the moral virtues. They are infused by God into the souls of the faithful to make them capable of acting as his children and of meriting eternal life. (CCC 1813 ) 

Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods. (CCC 2027) 

"nothing further is wanting to the justified [baptized and faithful], to prevent their being accounted to have, by those very works which have been done in God, fully satisfied the divine law according to the state of this life, and to have truly merited eternal life." (Trent, Chapter XVI; The Sixth Session Decree on justification, 1547) 

"If anyone says...that the one justified by the good works that he performs by the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit...the attainment of eternal life itself and also an increase of glory, let him be anathema." (Trent, Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 32. 

The term “merit” refers in general to the recompense owed by a community or a society for the action of one of its members..., (Catechism of the Catholic Church, #2006) 

Note however, that,

"With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man," "the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man's merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit." (CCC 2007-2008) 

However, this argument could be used for those who held to salvation under the Law, that by the grace of God they attained unto perfect obedience (and Paul as a Pharisee was blameless as concerning this: Philippians 3:6), whereas salvation by grace does not mean salvation by attaining to actual, practical perfection in this life or in Purgatory, but that of being accepted in the Beloved on His account, (Eph. 1:6) resulting finally in the resurrection of the body, which is the final conformity to Christ after this life. (1 John 3:2)  And with obedience with holiness in this life being its effects/fruits, but which effects are not the cause of justification, though works justify one as being a believer. (Heb. 6:9,10

And while God does reward faith (Hebrews 10:35) by rewarding the obedience of faith, (Mt. 25:31-40) and which obedience attests that one is a believer and thus it is appropriate that they be blessed, (Rv. 3:4) yet the "worthiness" here is not because moral attainment itself has made such accepted in the Beloved, and made them to sit together with Christ in Heaven,(Eph. 1:6; 2:6) and given them access to into the holy of holies in Heaven to pray, (Heb. 10:19) but as in conversion, it is because the faith that effects obedience is imputed for righteousness, (Rm. 4:5) eternal life being a gift, not a wage, (Romans 6:23) but in His grace God rewards the obedience of faith. (Heb. 10:35) Thus believers are exhorted, "Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward." (Hebrews 10:35

Moreover, the Catholic emphasis upon merit as obtaining eternal life not only leads to salvation via obtaining perfection of heart in this life or in mythical Purgatory, but it fosters just what the natural man expects, that if he does more good than evil then he can obtain Heaven. As expressed by this RC: 

I feel when my numbers up I will appoach a large table and St.Peter will be there with an enormous scale of justice by his side. We will see our life in a movie...the things that we did for the benefit of others will be for the plus side of the scale..the other stuff,,not so good will..well, be on the negative side..and so its a very interesting job Pete has. I wonder if he pushes a button for the elevator down for the losers...and what .sideways for those heading for purgatory..the half way house....lets wait and see.... ” http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=4098202&postcount=2

>One should not assume RCs know what Scripture or their church teaches on this or that the two fundamentally conflict, and that distinctive Catholic teachings not being manifest in the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed (including how they understood the OT and gospels), which is Scripture, especially Acts thru Revelation.
See more on Purgatory vs. Scripture here, by the grace of God.

31 posted on 03/06/2022 2:58:30 PM PST by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save U + be baptized + follow Him!)
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To: oldbill

Yup. Never fails. Illustrates once again, there’s no bigot like a “Christian” bigot.


32 posted on 03/06/2022 3:03:49 PM PST by hinckley buzzard ( Resist the narrative.)
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To: Steve_Seattle

Did I say anything about a “pagan god”? I simply said “continuing sacrifice”, not needed if Jesus’ one sacrifice paid for the sins of the whole world (Hebrews 10:12-14; John 2:2; John 1:29).


33 posted on 03/06/2022 3:08:29 PM PST by Jim W N (MAGA by restoring the Gospel of the Grace of Christ (Jude 3) and our Free Constitutional Republic!)
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To: CharlesOConnell

Sure they do.

That’s what “meriting” it means.

If you have to work to keep your salvation, the salvation is by works, IOW, earning it.


34 posted on 03/06/2022 3:26:15 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith…)
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To: Old Yeller

+1


35 posted on 03/06/2022 3:30:43 PM PST by Mark17 (USAF ATCer, Retired. Father of USAF pilot. ATCers & pilots, the only required elements of aviation.)
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To: FreshPrince

It can’t be the same sacrifice because Jesus is not still on the cross.

He died, past tense.

He said “It is finished” and gave up the Ghost.

He rose from the dead and proved once for all that He was alive again and He is now seated at the right hand of God.

He is no still hanging on the cross for eternity. He conquered sin and death and proved it by rising from the dead.

If He was still being sacrificed, then it would be proof there was still power in sin over Him.


36 posted on 03/06/2022 3:32:50 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith…)
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To: daniel1212

I’ve read more believable science fiction stories.


37 posted on 03/06/2022 3:36:32 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith…)
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To: metmom

Heaven has no time not present or past


38 posted on 03/06/2022 3:37:01 PM PST by FreshPrince
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To: Texas_Guy

Yep

What sins you forgive they are forgiven. Waht sins you retain they are retained.


39 posted on 03/06/2022 3:38:01 PM PST by FreshPrince
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To: oldbill
I love these threads. It really brings out the anti-Catholic Protestant bigots on FreeRepublic.
40 posted on 03/06/2022 3:38:24 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith…)
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