What about Presbyterians and Baptists and so forth? I know I can’t trust the Catholic Church anymore.
Your advice could help me narrow down what might be worth checking in our area, I will deal with non-denominational independents on my own based on what’s available.
I’m not promising anything as I have other issues and the family to agree, but I’d like to have an idea of where I could try.
E.g., I did look up a local Presbyterian church that seems to be rock solid ignoring the silly PC stuff. We have many churches around so I’d have a lot to research. Your advice could help that along!
Most of my history has been with the Missouri and Wisconsin Synods. My problem was rarely with doctrine - the raison d’etre for many Lutherans - but rather with discernment and sanctification. If someone gives intellectual assent to the accepted doctrines, Lutherans tend to assume that person is right with God.
I was debating theologians at 16, and attending pastoral conferences at 19 by special request. I spent six years, Junior and High, at a so-called non-denominational school.
(Non-Denominationals are really a quasi-Arminian/Anabaptist grouping unto themselves; they are far from truly non-denominational. None are ever aligned with Lutheran teaching, and I was often treated like a heretic there. It was not my choice to attend.)
I therefore have extensive experience with many denominations and with dozens of clergy. My general assessment is that “conservatives” focus on doctrine rather than wisdom (discernment), while “liberals” focus on feeling rather than lifestyle (morality).
Case in Point: I, then the principal Bible Study teacher, lost favor at one “conservative” M.S. church for questioning certain board and clergy decisions. The last and worst - keeping a man in a position of leadership despite his being functionally lapsed (in hope of keeping him connected to the church until he repented) - was the final straw for me. (See Acts of the Aostles 7.) I left rather than remain to be held partly responsible for whatever evil befell from that decision.
A year after I left, the lapsed man was murdered in a public restaurant during his lunch: He was having a sexual affair with another man’s wife, and the husband caught him and shot him. That particular congregation was famous at Fort Wayne for being ultra-conservative and for sending many “native sons” to seminary. I never heard through contacts that there was a sincere acknowledgment of their complicity in the outcome of the man’s life. They did not have a lax view of sexual immorality; they lacked the wisdom to see that keeping him in authority was neither spiritual nor responsible.
Presbyterian: The aforementioned “conservative” versus “liberal” dichotomy is even more extreme. Hard-line Calvinists tend to be very legalistic, very absolutist, and often intellectually condescending. (The Babylon Bee is obviously run by Calvinists. Entertaining? Yes. Edifying? Not really.)
Baptist: They often are described by secular media as the most conservative in Christendom, but that is misleading. They are really more often traditional (teaching the customs of Man as the laws of God) than consciously conservative (conserving what is of lasting truth and value), and they have a long history with the Democrat Party. (See Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.) The most Marxist preacher I have personally known was born and raised in a very traditional Southern Baptist church; he also attended a S.B. seminary. We were close childhood friends; his militant leftism drove us apart.
To paraphrase another old friend (who is still a friend): The purpose lies not in seeking to find a perfect church, for there is no such thing in this fallen world, but in seeking to find a church that admits it is not perfect, yet strives still to perfect itself.
I was raised a catholic. The catholic church literally touched my family. They are dead to me. God will not save millions of catholics because they believe in abortion, gay sex, and pedophilia. I spent years looking for a good church. I found a Baptist church, and directly asked the pastor his beliefs on certain topics. He had all of the right answers. I was re-baptized and joyful in the Lord for helping me find them. Go to a church and ask questions. The Lord will guide you to the very best one.
LCMS is tough to beat, IMO. Of course there is some variation among pastors, but not much.
I’ve sampled a few others (grew up LCMS, fairy strident about what is preached), all has more false teaching or bad focus than I could tolerate.
We have a member who is a student of theology, very serious, and he came from IIRC, Russian Orthodox congregation that went under due to lack of members.
It is easy enough to sample a church by attending a service and talking with some of the members. Our very convenience ELCA was not acceptable to us some years ago, and we did catholic Church for a couple months. Talk about virtue signaling ...
The nearby LCMS moved from “too far for me to drive” to “close enough for me to drive,” and this made me happy.
This is ultimately an individual thing. Family here is split on church preference, and while I don’t like that, it is part of the way of the world and the devil.
Maybe G-d is trying to tell chrstians something. Will you listen?
The One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Christ Jesus
, that built Christendom(western civilization.)
The Nicene Creed
I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
+10 One God
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
+15 Christ Jesus
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
+ 1 Consubstantial with the Father
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
+ 1 For our salvation
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
+ 1 Virgin Birth
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
+10 Suffered, Died and Rose
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
+ 1 Ascended, Seated
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.
+10 Come Again in Glory to Judge
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
+10 Holy Trinity
I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
+10 One Visible Church
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
+ 1 One Baptism
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come.
+10 Resurrection of the Dead
The Ten Commandments:
1. I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God
and Him only shall you serve.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.
4. Honor your father and your mother.
5. You shall not murder.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
10.You shall not covet your neighbor's goods.
+10 The Ten Commandments
The Greatest Commandment
1. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy
whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength
2. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
+ 2 The Greatest Commnadments
The Seven Sacraments Catholic Church:
1. Baptism.
2. Eucharist.
3. Confirmation.
4. Reconciliation.
5. Anointing of the sick.
6. Marriage.(XY+XX, Till death do us part)
7. Holy orders.
+ 7 The Seven Sacraments
The Precepts of the Catholic Church:
1. You shall attend Mass on Sundays and on holy days of obligation
and rest from servile labor.
2. You shall confess your sins at least once a year.
3. You shall receive the sacrament of the Eucharist at least during the
Easter season.
4. You shall observe the days of fasting and abstinence established by
the Church.
5. You shall help to provide for the needs of the Church.
+ 5 The Precepts
The seven chief corporal works of mercy:
1. To feed the hungry.
2. To give drink to the thirsty.
3. To clothe the naked.
4. To visit the imprisoned.
5. To shelter the homeless.
6. To visit the sick.
7. To bury the dead.
+ 7 Corporal Works
The seven chief spiritual works of mercy:
1. To admonish the sinner.
2. To instruct the ignorant.
3. To counsel the doubtful.
4. To comfort the sorrowful.
5. To bear wrongs patiently.
6. To forgive all injuries.
7. To pray for the living and the dead.
+ 7 Spiritual Works
Pro-Life - From Conception Until Natural Death
+10 Pro-Life
There are not a hundred people in America who hate
the Catholic Church. There are millions of people who hate
what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church
— which is, of course, quite a different thing. - Fulton J. Sheen
7
Dear FRiends;
While looking at old Lutheran catechism, found that:
Unfortunately, the RC and ELCA at least, have the Ten Commandments in the Creed wrong.
They have changed the Bible. The 3rd Commandment is missing, and instead they split the 10th Commandment on coveting ANYTHING in two.
The 3rd Commandment that is missing is this:
“4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. “
And it is a big one, with a lot to it.
All those statues are a sin under the 10 Commandments, and a foundational issue.
. . What else in these churches is missing . . .”
OK, I am excited that my little request garnered SO MUCH reply! And little fighting - yet.
However, may I please state again:
VERY SIMPLY, I’m just looking for churches that DO NOT bow down to the PC wokeness we’ve increasingly seen even at church.
I want to start with the simple requirement, that I won’t see self-conscious and self-righteous libelous apologetics and kneeling to blacks (as in BLM), and won’t see rainbow flags. I won’t see special public festival days just to kiss BLM/GLAAD rear ends.
That’s all I want. To start. To narrow down my search.
What one is perfectly RIGHT frankly isn’t the question. I’m just looking for those that are not obviously WRONG.
With that being said, most so called Christians I've encountered in my lifetime, especially on this forum, are nothing but hypocrites.......
I attend a small Christian Church in a very small Mid-Missouri town. Our preacher is quite gifted. I also followed Skip Heitzig on YouTube frequently. Skip is an amazing pastor and preaches from the Bible. He is definatelt not a brainwashed liberal. In fact, in the video sermon released earlier today he actually stated that the pandemic is coming to a close. I’m sure that will cause liberal heads everywhere to explode.