Posted on 12/08/2021 2:19:08 PM PST by MurphsLaw
Yes, Jesus is the son of Mary and He is God incarnate - He took on human flesh at a specific time and place - but He is eternal and has ALWAYS existed. Mary is the "God bearer" (theotokos). Metmom certainly has no confusion about the Holy Trinity. Catholicism, on the other hand, has a warped understanding of it which is why they view Mary as if she is like God with the power to save them and is worthy of their veneration and devotion to her more than to Jesus. You are going beyond what is written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Just because we disagree with you about the titles and veneration given to Mary it doesn't mean we are "confused" about the Holy Trinity. In fact, I believe we have a better grasp of this major tenet of the faith than most Catholics do.
QUESTION
Is Mary the mother of God (Theotokos)?
ANSWER
The phrase mother of God traces back to the third century and continues to be used in some liturgical churches, including the Roman Catholic Church. One of the topics at the Council of Ephesus in AD 431 was the use of the Greek term Theotókos (literally, “God-bearer” or “the one who gives birth to God”) in reference to Mary. That council’s use of Theotokos was meant to counter the heresy of Nestorianism, which cleaved the nature and person of Christ in two: Christ’s human and divine natures were completely divergent and unconnected. According to Nestorius, Mary gave birth to Christ but not to God; Mary was the mother of His humanity, which was totally distinct from His divinity—Jesus was two persons sharing one body, essentially. The Council of Ephesus affirmed the full deity of Christ and unity of His person by saying that Mary did indeed bear God in her womb. Mary is the “mother of God” in the sense that, since Jesus is God and Mary is the mother of Jesus, she is the mother of God. The Word became flesh (John 1:14), and Mary mothered Him.
We should distinguish the term Theotokos from mother of God, because there is a subtle yet important difference. The term mother of God could be taken wrongly as implying that Mary was the source or originator of God, similar to how Juno was the mother of Vulcan in Roman mythology. Of course, Christianity teaches that God is eternal and that Jesus Christ has a pre-existent, divine nature. The idea that Mary is the mother of God in the sense that she was the source of God or somehow predated God or is herself part of the Godhead is patently unbiblical.
The term Theotokos, on the other hand, is more specific and less open to being misconstrued. Theotokos simply implies that Mary carried God in her womb and gave birth to Him. Mary was the human agent through whom the eternal Son of God took on a human body and a human nature and entered the world. The term Theotokos was a succinct expression of the biblical teaching of the Incarnation, and that is how the Council of Ephesus used the word. Mary is the “God-bearer” in that within her body the divine person of God the Son took on human nature in addition to His pre-existing divine nature. Since Jesus is fully God and fully man, it is correct to say that Mary “bore” God.
Even though the term Theotokos was originally used to help explain the Incarnation, many people today use the term, or the related mother of God, to communicate something different. Through the years, many legends accumulated around the person of Mary, and she became an object of worship in her own right. About 350 years after the Council of Ephesus used the term Theotokos in reference to Mary, the Second Council of Nicaea declared, “We honor and salute and reverently venerate . . . the image of . . . our spotless Lady the all-holy mother of God.” This shows the trend within the Roman Church to move from a focus on the Incarnation of God to a veneration of the “Mother of God,” even to the point of honoring her images and praying to her as the “Queen of Heaven,” “Benefactress,” and “Mediatrix.” The necessity of such veneration is not implied by the term Theotokos, but some people wrongly infer it.
Roman Catholic leaders teach their followers to go to Mary to find help in their time of need: “From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, Part 1, Section 2, Chapter 3, Article 9, Paragraph 6, 971). The Eastern churches still use the term Theotokos, and they sing hymns called theotokia to Mary. This portion of a theotokion is from the liturgy of the Coptic Orthodox Church: “You are the pride of virgins, O Mary the Theotokos. / You are the soul’s city, where the Most High lived, who sits upon the throne, of the Cherubim. . . . / O Virgin Mary, the holy Mother of God, the trusted advocate, of the human race. / Intercede on our behalf, before Christ whom you have born, that He may grant unto us, the forgiveness of our sins” (from The Friday Theotokia – Watos).
These views of Mary represent a theological shift away from Christ as our sole Redeemer and Intercessor (1 Timothy 2:5) and an overemphasis on Mary as the “Mother of God.” (https://www.gotquestions.org/Mary-mother-God-theotokos.html)
I reject the thought that you know what that term even means. I know it's been explained hundreds of times to you over the years, but it doesn't seem to have registered in your memory bank. Tell me, does God-breathed Holy Scripture not have the highest authority over matters of the Christian faith?
You know BB, I left the Catholic Church many decades ago, and have been a born again Christian for that long. I don’t recall ever hearing the term solo scriptura. As far as I can remember, the first time I ever heard the term, sola Scriptura, was here on Free Republic. I am still not positive of what it means. What I THINK it means, is that I don’t accept anything else except the Bible, as a legitimate authority. If that is the definition of sola scriptura, then I accept that. Does this mean, that the writings of people like Clarence Larkin, Spurgeon, Donald Gray Barnhouse, Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Hal Lindsey, Chuck Smiyh and Chuck Missler, are no good? No. It simply means, we compare whatever they say, to the written word of God. 😀😂
First, let me say, I definitely believe the woman in Revelation, to be Israel. Israel contains men and women. Israel is not just male. There are plenty of women in Israel. Now, using your logic. The bride of Christ. Since a bride is always a female, does this mean that men will be excluded from the bride of Christ, since brides are females? I think not. The woman of Revelation, is Israel. And another thing, how can Mary give birth anymore, since she has been dead for a long time. If a woman, who has been dead for 2,000 years, gives birth, it would surely be a first.
If you understand God, you have WAY too small a God.
You need a way bigger one.
It appears that your answer is, "No."
You have shown, by example, that you can not find error in the logic of her statements.
Apparently they learn this response in catechism classes.
So?
Is this supposed to be an explanation of why her logic is wrong?
Nope. We REJECT Romes 'authority' to create such a 'title' in light of what Rome has recorded in the book she assembled - so long ago.
You have nothing to support your contention or position in Scripture.
Isn't it funny how this sounds when coming from a Catholic!!
(Sorry Evertt...)
I do understand!!
And Rome takes a few of these words, adds Mother to them, and comes up with "Mother of GOD"
I want to learn!!
Please, please, PLEASE!!!
Teach me!
And, while you are at it, teach me more about Mary's special powers that Rome has found out about.
But surely there MUST be SOMETHING in the Book that Rome assembled that can at least lend a little support for all of your assertions; right?
Submission?
She may as well; for the angel told her flat out what WAS going to happen!
He(it?) didn't wait around to see if she was on board with the alarming news.
Luke 1:26-38 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
26 And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.
31 Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever.
33 And of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man?
35 And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shalt come upon thee, and the power of the most High shalt overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shalt be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
36 And behold thy cousin Elizabeth, she also hath conceived a son in her old age; and this is the sixth month with her that is called barren:
37 Because no word shalt be impossible with God.
38 And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
(shall / shalt is NOT 'asking' Mary if she'll do something for GOD)
This is not CONSENTING, as the angel TOLD her what WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.
What Mary said after that fact had NO influence on what WAS going to take place!
The way it's written:
It’s been so long since I went to catechism class. Since I didn’t like being in catechism class, to begin with, I don’t know if we were taught that. I didn’t pay enough attention, to know for sure. 😀😄😁🙃😊
Thou shalt despair not, Oh Forgetful One,
that these threads still need some fun.
Well-taught catechisms,
leads to no religious schisms.
Obey not Mary, but the Son.
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