Posted on 08/04/2021 2:19:35 PM PDT by MurphsLaw
Yeh, that’s about it. Not a lot of good news coming from that fire.i just think people really believe that is going to happen. And of course there is still a way out.
2Cor.Chapter6:2. Until the Body of Christ is complete, God’s grace is extended another day. “Behold now is the accepted time: behold now is the day of salvation.”
Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions, occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.The professed Christian who remains in sin will not inherit the kingdom of God. Paul is insistant that we must live according to the Spirit. Faith alone is not enough. This is what the Bible teaches.
You are sorely misinformed. For first, salvation is not based on Christ’s final judgment for they are already saved or lost before any judgment, and instead salvation is based upon heart-purifying regenerating effectual living faith, (Acts 10:43-47; 17:7-9) being counted/imputed for righteousness. (Rm. 4:5) Saved souls are vindicated in this as being believers by their works of obedience, and if they die in the faith, or are here when Christ returns, then as shown here before more than once, wherever Scripture clearly speak of the next conscious reality for believers then it is with the Lord, (Lk. 23:43 [cf. 2Cor. 12:4; Rv. 2:7]; Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17) Note in the latter case all believers were assured that if the Lord returned, which they expected in their lifetime, so would they “ever be with the Lord,” though they were still undergoing growth in grace, as was Paul. (Phil. 3:7f)
And the next transformative experience that is manifestly taught is that of being like Christ in the "first resurrection." (1Jn. 3:2; Rm. 8:23; 1Co 15:53,54; 2Co. 2-4; (Revelation 20:6)
At which first resurrection all believers shall "stand before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (2 Corinthians 5:10) For "every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour...Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Corinthians 3:8, 13-15)
At which is the only suffering after this life, and which does not begin at death, but awaits the Lord's return, (1 Corinthians 4:5; 2 Timothy. 4:1,8; Revelation 11:18; Matthew 25:31-46; 1 Peter 1:7; 5:4) and as shown, it is the suffering of the loss of rewards (and the Lord's displeasure) due to the manner of material one built the church with, which one is saved despite the loss of such, not because of. (1 Corinthians 3:8ff)
After which first resurrection and the judgment seat of Christ "they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." (Revelation 20:6) Which is followed by the great white throne judgment of the lost in which God will render to every man according to his works, with believers acting as kind of jury, providing testimony to the evil the lost did. Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? (1 Corinthians 6:2) . And which is not to determine who is saved, but is the suffering of the loss of rewards (and the Lord's displeasure) due to the manner of material one built the church with, which one is saved despite the loss of such, not because of. (1 Corinthians 3:8ff)
For there are two judgments, the resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation, each separated by the 1,000 year reign of Christ (regardless if Rome denies it) with words and works formally justifying souls as being believers and rewarded accordingly for their effectual faith, while unbelievers - beginning with the devil - are shown to be so in the light of their works, and with them receiving the fitting punishment for their unbelieving deeds.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (Revelation 20:5)
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5:29)
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, (Revelation 20:2)
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4)
During which time there will be unregenerate souls (which the elect rule over) and temple sacrifices and forgiveness, as Ezekiel 34-46 extensively details.
And those that had part in the first resurrection go with the Lord as His army to the battle of Armageddon, and then to reign with Christ for a 1,000 years, and then to sit in judgment (as in a jury) in sentencing the lost.
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 14-15)
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? (1 Corinthians 6:2-3)
And which Great White throne judgment (Rev. 20:11-15) is not the same as that for believers, which is the judgment seat of Christ, which is the only suffering after this life, which does not begin at death, but awaits the Lord's return, (1 Corinthians 4:5; 2 Timothy. 4:1,8; Revelation 11:18; Matthew 25:31-46; 1 Peter 1:7; 5:4)
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4) However, it is a shame that Catholics deny the clearly taught fact that rather than one general resurrection of the redeemed and the lost, the is a 1,000 years difference btwn the "first resurrection," the "resurrection of life," and the second resurrection
The flesh is the body AND the interfaced behavior mechanism. The spirit is separated from the flesh when one is born again. If you keep depending on your work to sustain God’s Grace, you will -if born again- remain an infant until the Great Departure. Salvation is by Christ alone through faith alone and is an instant moment when God birth’s you from above.
Well, the Book asks ...(but it might be mistranslated)
... "when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8b
This Scripture tends to indicate otherwise.
You are still avoiding the direct and clear words of Paul:
THOSE WHO SIN WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD!
This Biblical truth comes before any circumlocutious attempt to deny it.
Not according to the text.
If anyone's name was not found written IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
Yup
How do we know this?
I guess Christ's direct answer to a direct question was justnot complete enough for these fellas..
John 6:25-4025 When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?” 26 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.” 28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” 29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” 30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’[c]” 32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.” 35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.” |
Oh?
Raise them from WHERE?
It seems like there is a difference of opinion of just when this 'day' is.
Could you explain this in a little more detail?
Once again - this is undefined.
See my arthritic fingered collection in post 43
Now its time to sleep. Though we shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed.
The Body of Christ will be complete when the Holy Spirit baptizes and seals the last person to accept Jesus Christ as his savior into the Body of Christ. We don’t know when or who but God does. And when that last member has come in, the Church the Body of Christ is complete, the fullness of the Gentiles is come in, and Christ will come for the Body of believers
The Rapture
Swing...and a miss. You have utterly neglected to even try to explain just how you think my reproof was invalid, and of course if you had then it would result in more refutation, and instead all you have is an empty assertion and a vain irrational attempt at an argument.
"Yet, somehow, you must feel the Christian world is still capable of combatting modern day heresy, whether it be modernism or secularism, by using the Bible as a foundational basis for those efforts. The same Bible that has hundreds of translations, and where a single verse of Scripture now can have multiple meanings that suit the needs of the reader... Object as you wish, but we didnt get to this point by accident where a Gay "Christian" man running for President can proclaim that JESUS never mentioned the word "abortion" and homo acts are so Old Testament and out of date.... and millions believe him, while millions of faithful can only sit back and watch the hijack."
Your premise then is that using the Bible as a foundational basis for combatting modern day heresy is insufficient or even futile since prohomosexuals, etc. also invoke it or attack it, and even that this recourse has resulted in a Gay "Christian" man running for President proclaiming that JESUS never mentioned the word "abortion," but which premise is as absurd as arguing that since an instruction manual can be misread, abused or counterfeited then using that as a standard is insufficient or even futile.
Moreover, your argument is that a sure supreme authority is what men need to look to rather than Scripture, and which you can only imagine reality testifies to. In which, rather than the use of Scripture as the sure substantive and supreme authority resulting in immorality rather than looking to Rome, those who most strongly esteemed as the accurate and wholly inspired word of God, with its basic literal hermeneutic, have long testified to being far more conservative and unified in polled core beliefs and values (thus voting about 80% for Republican Presidential candidates) than Catholics overall, whom Rome manifestly considers to be members. . .
It is the rejection of Scripture as the accurate and wholly inspired word of God, with its basic literal hermeneutic (as in historical accounts) that is usually concomitant with such abuse of it that you speak of, and which Rome actually fosters!
Meanwhile Catholicism itself is fractured, whether you admit it. For besides the fact that with your overall modern leadership you can hardly promote such* papal teaching as that 'the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors," then even if you had the leadership that your TradCath comrades invoke, then this does not solve the problem of interpretation of the interpreter. Indeed, as one poster wryly stated,
The last time the church imposed its judgment in an authoritative manner on "areas of legitimate disagreement," the conservative Catholics became the Sedevacantists and the Society of St. Pius X, the moderate Catholics became the conservatives, the liberal Catholics became the moderates, and the folks who were excommunicated, silenced, refused Catholic burial, etc. became the liberals. The event that brought this shift was Vatican II; conservatives then couldn't handle having to actually obey the church on matters they were uncomfortable with, so they left. ” - Nathan, https://christopherblosser.wordpress.com/2005/05/16/fr-michael-orsi-on-different-levels-of-catholic-teaching (original http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/blog/2005/05/fr-michael-orsi-on-different-levels-of.html)
And your magisterium can hardly be said to provide timely guidance in response to issues, and TradCaths are usually grieved when your present pope opens his mouth in providing such.
And unlike unchanging Scripture, when leadership goes South (and the present is not the worse period**), so do those who follow it, while others essentially become like Bible Christians in determining the validity and meaning of current teaching by subjecting it to their understanding of what ancient teaching said. Thus you have no case against Scripture being the sure substantive standard rather than Catholic leadership, and should be attacking the liberal Bible scholarship of your church, such as i substantiated.
Yet the fact is that both looking to Scripture as supreme or to church leadership can result in unity,*** yet both are needed, but it is only insofar as the latter holds to the former that you can have Biblical unity. (2 Co. 6:4-10)
** 'the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors," "to suffer themselves to be guided and led in all things that touch upon faith or morals by the Holy Church of God through its Supreme Pastor the Roman Pontiff," "of submitting with docility to their judgment," with "no discussions regarding what he orders or demands, or up to what point obedience must go, and in what things he is to be obeyed... not only in person, but with letters and other public documents ;" and 'not limit the field in which he might and must exercise his authority, " for "obedience must not limit itself to matters which touch the faith: its sphere is much more vast: it extends to all matters which the episcopal power embraces," and not set up "some kind of opposition between one Pontiff and another. Those who, faced with two differing directives, reject the present one to hold to the past, are not giving proof of obedience to the authority which has the right and duty to guide them," "Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent." (Sources http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3578348/posts?page=14#14)
** Cardinal Bellarmine: "Some years before the rise of the Lutheran and Calvinistic heresy, according to the testimony of those who were then alive, there was almost an entire abandonment of equity in ecclesiastical judgments; in morals, no discipline; in sacred literature, no erudition; in divine things, no reverence; religion was almost extinct. (Concio XXVIII. Opp. Vi. 296- Colon 1617, in “A History of the Articles of Religion,” by Charles Hardwick, Cp. 1, p. 10,) Cardinal Ratzinger" "For nearly half a century, the Church was split into two or three obediences that excommunicated one another, so that every Catholic lived under excommunication by one pope or another, and, in the last analysis, no one could say with certainty which of the contenders had right on his side. The Church no longer offered certainty of salvation; she had become questionable in her whole objective form--the true Church, the true pledge of salvation, had to be sought outside the institution.“ "It is against this background of a profoundly shaken ecclesial consciousness that we are to understand that Luther, in the conflict between his search for salvation and the tradition of the Church, ultimately came to experience the Church, not as the guarantor, but as the adversary of salvation. (Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, head of the Sacred Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith for the Church of Rome, “Principles of Catholic Theology,” trans. by Sister Mary Frances McCarthy, S.N.D. (San Francisco: Ignatius, 1989) p.196). http://www.whitehorseinn.org/blog/2012/06/13/whos-in-charge-here-the-illusions-of-church-infallibility/)
*** Alexis de Tocqueville (1805—1859. French political thinker and historian; best known for his two volume, “Democracy in America”) — The sects that exist in the United States are innumerable. They all differ in respect to the worship which is due to the Creator; but they all agree in respect to the duties which are due from man to man. Each sect adores the Deity in its own peculiar manner, but all sects preach the same moral law in the name of God...Moreover, all the sects of the United States are comprised within the great unity of Christianity, and Christian morality is everywhere the same... In the United States the sovereign authority is religious, and consequently hypocrisy must be common; but there is no country in the whole world in which the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America, and there can be no greater proof of its utility, and of its conformity to human nature, than that its influence is most powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth... There is certainly no country in the world where the tie of marriage is more respected than in America or where conjugal happiness is more highly or worthily appreciated, In Europe almost all the disturbances of society arise from the irregularities of domestic life. To despise the natural bonds and legitimate pleasures of home is to contract a taste for excesses, a restlessness of heart, and fluctuating desires. Agitated by the tumultuous passions that frequently disturb his dwelling, the European is galled by the obedience which the legislative powers of the state exact. But when the American retires from the turmoil of public life to the bosom of his family, he finds in it the image of order and of peace... The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other; and with them this conviction does not spring from that barren traditionary faith which seems to vegetate in the soul rather than to live... (Democracy in America, [New York: A. S. Barnes & Co., 1851), pp. 331, 332, 335, 336-7, 337; http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/religion/ch1_17.htm)
Elsewhere Paul has said:
Therefore, you are without excuse, every one of you who passes judgment. For by the standard by which you judge another you condemn yourself, since you, the judge, do the very same things. We know that the judgment of God on those who do such things is true. Do you suppose, then, you who judge those who engage in such things and yet do them yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you hold his priceless kindness, forbearance, and patience in low esteem, unaware that the kindness of God would lead you to repentance? By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God, WHO WILL REPAY EVERYONE ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS: eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness. Yes, affliction and distress will come upon every human being who does evil, Jew first and then Greek. But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good, Jew first and then Greek. There is no partiality with God. (Romans 2:1-5)But let us turn to the words of John 6 which you quoted. Yes, we must believe, but what does it mean to believe? It is not just have faith in the saving work of Jesus on the Cross, but also to believe in all that he has taught us. Thus:
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’ Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers. (Matthew 7:21-23)And again:
Now someone approached him and said, “Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?” He answered him, “Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” He asked him, “Which ones?” And Jesus replied, “ ‘You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; honor your father and your mother’; and ‘you shall love your neighbor as yourself.’” (Matthew 19:16-19)And how many parable are there of our Lord that warn us that we will be judged by our actions? While Protestants claim to base their believes "on Scripture alone," in reality they just ignore those parts of the Bible that contradict their belief in "by faith alone." Their claim of being "Bible believing" Christians is a sham.
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