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To: MurphsLaw
When you start your reasoning with the following false premise, the rest of the edifice you build will be scripture insecure: "In Baptism we have been saved"

As a Catholic, you are probably unable to see the flaw int his assertion. And the Catholicism notion that an infant can be saved by infant baptism is proof of confusion. No man such as a Catholic Priest has that god-like power, to save someone because the priest baptized them as an infant.

The ONLY thing God requires for HIM to act on your behalf is that you sincerely believe Jesus is Whom GOD SENT to make Justification possible for you individually. Believe is the ONLY thing God requires for HIM to act on your behalf. To put baptism as the means for salvation is to put action by someone other than God at the heart / start of Justification.

63 posted on 07/25/2021 9:34:24 AM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: MurphsLaw
Sanctification, on the other hand, is a process God wants and expects us to be intimately involved with, as His abiding Spirit in our born again spirit indicates which behaviors our SOUL (our mind will and emotions, so this covers our thought patterns not just the deeds of the body; the 'flesh' is the body and soul as a unit) which behaviors and thoughts thus the things that enter our soul via the eyegate must come under Holy Spirit inspired functioning, to save us from the power of sin and temptation.

In the instant we are Justified BY GOD -Who is the ONLY One Who can do it- GOD separates our soul and spirit, so that His Spirit can abide where there is no sin, in the new born sinless human spirit now in God's family because that spirit has God Life in it. Scripture tells us that the Word of God is able to separate soul and spirit, and the Gospel of God's Grace is the Promise / Word of God. Paul tells us to be transformed by the renewing of our mind; the mind is part of our soul, so with God's help we may be transformed iun behavior by the renewing of our mind to the behavior pattern of a person possessing the charater of God put into action by the renewing of our mind via His urging and instruction.

Sanctification is the process involved with our soul, not our spirit. Our spirit can ONLY be born again via what God does, never what we presume to do. So after we are born again, anything the soul does is apart from our spirit but can blur our image as a child of God, kind og like putting a votive candle in a large crystalline vase then allowing mud to be applied to the outside of the vase, effecting the illumination potential of the vase.

To be continued ...

65 posted on 07/25/2021 10:59:50 AM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: MHGinTN

Believe is the ONLY thing God requires for HIM to act on your behalf.


Read that slowly and let your lips move.

There is a little perspective. From our point of view it looks that way. I suspect it is the opposite from God’s point of view.


66 posted on 07/25/2021 11:07:37 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple (Thinking Caps are no longer being issued but there must be a warehouse full of them somewhere.)
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To: MHGinTN
When you start your reasoning with the following false premise, the rest of the edifice you build will be scripture insecure: "In Baptism we have been saved"
As a Catholic, you are probably unable to see the flaw int his assertion. And the Catholicism notion that an infant can be saved by infant baptism is proof of confusion. No man such as a Catholic Priest has that god-like power, to save someone because the priest baptized them as an infant.


Well, I am truly reluctant to respond. I say it is you who deal in false premises- as what you perceive to be Catholic doctrine is unmistakable in its error. Whether or not you choose to acknowledge the Scriptural foundations of the Church is fine, but you can’t validate your position with false premises.

We ARE saved by Baptism- the washing of Original sin. However- as YOU have pointed out regarding the ‘tenses” (your term) of the Salvation process, this just the beginning tense.
We ARE saved by Baptism – but not permanently, not Forever. Removal of the inherited sin through God’s pardon of us – through no merit of our own - Justifies our souls through the Grace of God toward Salvation.

“Baptism . . . NOW saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

In the Creed we continually proclaim - “I confess ONE baptism for the forgiveness of sins.” –
Now this applies to Infants or 60 year old Atheists… it’s the beginning of the Salvation process for us, but it does not guarantee Salvation forever.

“He who endures to the end will be saved” (Matt. 24)

Now you will say this denies Christ perfect redemption in his resurrection for us… but Baptism does NOT deny or diminish… but through our Baptism it enjoins us TO CHRIST… for we say….

" Therefore we have been buried with him by baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too MIGHT walk in newness of life."

Now does this mean that we have bound God - or God is bound by our Baptismal rebirth ? - absolutely not… God is bound by nothing. (i.e.- The Good Thief on the Cross)
The Church does not bind anyone either, or their Free Will.
Though if one were to die on earth with original sin remaining in their Soul- … and as we also know NO sin cannot enter Heaven….not good

And that you think a Priest is God-Like is to totally misunderstand the Apostolic nature of Christ’s walk on earth and to deny him the Church he promised us.
For anyone to assume a Priest can save God's created is crazy talk… and I wonder how serious you are- or that you are just totally unaware of the tenets of the Church.
77 posted on 07/27/2021 4:11:11 PM PDT by MurphsLaw ("For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope.")
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