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To: daniel1212
Thus you are in error and engaging in a false dichotomy.

I would prefer you accuse me of being incongruous, rather than the less accurate “dichotomous” label. That rankles me a bit- since I have shown you Scriptural HARMONY between St. Paul and St. James scriptural gifts to us - and NO LESS than with the guidance of the Holy Spirit-
and the best you can do with your Faith Alone ideal is to validate its contradiction- by attributing definition to Paul for that which he DID NOT write and at the same time dismissIn or revising what St. James DID In fact say about your Sola...You can’t Square that between these two New Testament authors- and make it fit no matter how hard you try....

I am beginning to see through the scriptural rabbit holes you are trained in and enjoy so much- and I think I am starting to see a situation where for you.... and this might sound weird.... where you find having “Faith”, in “your own Faith” to be of a critical importance....
And that maybe it can even become paramount... I could be wrong, but Do you think it possible for someone?- to have a zealous Faith IN their own Faith?
I also can see where the Mass, the Sacraments and corporal works of mercy don’t allow for that type of sole concentration.
Thoughts?
28 posted on 07/14/2021 11:27:55 PM PDT by MurphsLaw ("If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.")
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To: MurphsLaw
"I would prefer you accuse me of being incongruous, rather than the less accurate “dichotomous” label. That rankles me a bit- since I have shown you Scriptural HARMONY between St. Paul and St. James scriptural gifts to us - and NO LESS than with the guidance of the Holy Spirit- "

No, in what I referred to you set justification by faith as being opposed to pleasing God by love. You took a statement of hyperbole which does not describe justiifyiong faith that "worketh by love" that the article referred to, and and set it in opposition to the what they article taught, asserting "does not seem to fit very well at all into your description." Rather, what you perceived did not fit very well at all into its description.

"and the best you can do with your Faith Alone ideal is to validate its contradiction- by attributing definition to Paul for that which he DID NOT write and at the same time dismissIn or revising what St. James DID In fact say about your Sola...You can’t Square that between these two New Testament authors- and make it fit no matter how hard you try.... I am beginning to see through the scriptural rabbit holes you are trained in and enjoy so much- and I think I am starting to see a situation where for you.... and this might sound weird.... where you find having “Faith”, in “your own Faith” to be of a critical importance.... "

What incongruity of ignorance is this? Apparently (as is the norm for students of RC propaganda) you hold to the fallacy that sola fide means a faith that is alone justifies rather than it being the faith which effects works being that which purifies the heart in the washing of regeneration.

As even Luther himself formally taught:

faith is a living and an essential thing, which makes a new creature of man, changes his spirit... Faith cannot help doing good works constantly... if faith be true, it will break forth and bear fruit... where there is no faith there also can be no good works; and conversely, that there is no faith.. where there are no good works. Therefore faith and good works should be so closely joined together that the essence of the entire Christian life consists in both. if obedience and God's commandments do not dominate you, then the work is not right, but damnable, surely the devil's own doings, although it were even so great a work as to raise the dead... if you continue in pride and lewdness, in greed and anger, and yet talk much of faith, St. Paul will come and say, 1 Cor. 4:20, look here my dear Sir, "the kingdom of God is not in word but in power." It requires life and action, and is not brought about by mere talk. Works are necessary for salvation, but they do not cause salvation... faith casts itself on God, and breaks forth and becomes certain through its works... faith must be exercised, worked and polished; be purified by fire... it is impossible for him who believes in Christ, as a just Savior, not to love and to do good. If, however, he does not do good nor love, it is sure that faith is not present... where the works are absent, there is also no Christ... References and more by God's grace. http://peacebyjesus.net/Reformation_faith_works.html

Consider the SS Puritans who often had a tendency to make the way to the cross too narrow, perhaps in reaction against the Antinomian controversy, as described in an account (http://www.the-highway.com/Early_American_Bauckham.html) of Puritans during the early American period:

“They had, like most preachers of the Gospel, a certain difficulty in determining what we might call the ‘conversion level’, the level of difficulty above which the preacher may be said to be erecting barriers to the Gospel and below which he may be said to be encouraging men to enter too easily into a mere delusion of salvation. Contemporary critics, however, agree that the New England pastors set the level high. Nathaniel Ward, who was step-son to Richard Rogers and a distinguished Puritan preacher himself, is recorded as responding to Thomas Hooker’s sermons on preparation for receiving Christ in conversion with, ‘Mr. Hooker, you make as good Christians before men are in Christ as ever they are after’, and wishing, ‘Would I were but as good a Christian now as you make men while they are preparing for Christ.’”

And that maybe it can even become paramount... I could be wrong, but Do you think it possible for someone?- to have a zealous Faith IN their own Faith?

Certainly but non-sequitur. But Catholicism fosters faith in one's own merit and that of Herself for salvation, including by such reactionary misleading statements as

"nothing further is wanting to the justified [baptized and faithful], to prevent their being accounted to have, by those very works which have been done in God, fully satisfied the divine law according to the state of this life, and to have truly merited eternal life." (Trent, Chapter XVI; The Sixth Session Decree on justification, 1547) Likewise Canon 32 teaches that if anyone says that the one justified by the good works that he performs by the grace of God does not truly merit eternal life, and in case he dies in grace, the attainment of eternal life itself, let him be anathema.

There is a contextual sense in which works justify, meaning they justify one as being a believer as it did Abraham, having fruit that accompanies salvation (Rm 8:14; Heb. 6:9,10) and thus fulfilling the affirmation given thru imputed righteousness. (James 2:23; Gn. 15:6; Rm. 4:1ff) And God rewards the faith of believers as expressed in works by the Spirit, (Heb. 10:35) though man the only things man can - and must - claim any credit for is his disobedience, but as regards what obtains justification then it is effectual faith, not any moral merit

30 posted on 07/15/2021 8:43:52 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save + be baptized + follow Him!)
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