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To: MHGinTN
In Catholicism there is no reconciling what you imagine is a contradiction.

The Catholic Church teaches- and the Councils have condemned for centuries- that your claim of ANY idea that We can be be justified by Works- or EARN our salvation is not POSSIBLE- anyone who thinks that is "accursed".

You continue to spout a falsehood about the Church that is not part of the Church's teaching at all. For Pete's sake - an ATHEIST can do good works (and I'm sure some do). But that counts as nothing. It's obvious "good works" is not something we can justify ourselves by. If that were the case- Who needs a resurrected Christ then?
Who then needs Christ within him through the Eucharist?
You are ill-informed on what The Church teaches.

Think of it this way - as a combination of these verses:
"As it is written: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him unto justice.
21 "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar?

Does God NOT also ask of us to transform are unworthiness?
Did Abraham so Love God in such a way - that he would sacrifice his Son?? If he was once and for all "unto Justice"- Why the need of the Altar?

We must DO (action) the Will of God in our earthly lives as well, to fight the good fight to our end, which requires Faith andLove as St. Paul wrote...

Call them "works" to muddy the water if you must...but water that is obscured is for your eyes...
15 posted on 07/13/2021 1:05:21 PM PDT by MurphsLaw ("If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.")
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To: MurphsLaw

You remain clueless. On purpose? I dunno. But I can see by what you post that you haven’t a clue as to the meaning of Justification, Sanctification, and Glorification. There is NOTHING you can do or fail to do that can change the Justification which ONLY God can do for you. Once HE justifies you, it is HE WHO then abides in the born again spirit and since He came by His Grace into your before dead spirit you cannot put Him out of your alive spirit. (John 10:27-30) The Grace of God in Christ is so great in Love that He doesn’t even expect you to keep what ONLY HE can do for you, so HE KEEPS you alive forever more.


19 posted on 07/13/2021 3:25:05 PM PDT by MHGinTN
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To: MurphsLaw; SouthernClaire; daniel1212; Elsie; aMorePerfectUnion; ducttape45; imardmd1; boatbums
You show you are incapable of seeing that your religion's claims of sacramental necessity is works to achieve or retain, that's why poor deluded Catholics tell us they are striving for eternal life, by following the sacramental trail your religion insists must be adhered to in order to eventually get a shot at purgatory (where the work of suffeing supposedly makes one 'clean enough for Heaven).

Here is a clue for you: there will ne hundreds of millions of members in the Rapture who had zero to only some change in the sanctrification process and here is why: faithful is He that calleth you for He will also do it; many are called but few are chosen; so of the many called, why so few chosen?... Because so few will let HIM do it.

Do you know to what the 'do it' refers? It is not Justification to which that refers, it is the sanctification process, so few will let HIM change their soulish activities, so they are not chosen. You might well ask chosen for what? Here is a clue which Paul wrote: some saved members of the Body of Christ Believers will end up in Heaven with no reward at the Bema Seat because the perfect righteous fire of Him will burn away their wood hay and stubble, but they themselves will be saved; they are in Heaven when this Bema review happens and they are not cast out because they didn't do works good enough to deserve Heaven, they are there by God's Grace through faith alone in Christ alone. That, ny Catholic FRiend, brings Glory to Christ alone

Now, again, do you know to what the chosen means? ... Many are called but few are chosen. This passage refers to the sanctification tense of salvation, beung delivered from THE POWER of sin. It Does not refer to the penalty of Sin, for that deliverance happened in God Justifying them.

Justification ios GOD delivering you from the penalty of sin; sanctification is GOD AND YOUR COOPERATION delivering you from the power of sin; Glorification is the deliverance from the PRESENCE of sin, in the person of The Man of Sin, revealed when the Restrainer is taken out of the way and the man of sin AntiChrist revealed.

20 posted on 07/13/2021 3:49:00 PM PDT by MHGinTN
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To: MurphsLaw; MHGinTN
As it is written: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him unto justice. 21 "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar?

I think the confusion STARTS with the crummy way Romans 4:3 is translated in the Douay-Rheims version. They substituted the word "righteousness" with "justice" (and not just in this verse) for some strange reason when the Greek word is:

dikaios: correct, righteous, by impl. innocent
Original Word: δίκαιος, ία, ιον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: dikaios
Phonetic Spelling: (dik'-ah-yos)
Definition: correct, righteous, by implication innocent
Usage: just; especially, just in the eyes of God; righteous; the elect (a Jewish idea).

Even the word "just" or "justified" is a better choice than justice. The Scripture this passage refers to - Genesis 15:6 - uses the Hebrew word for righteousness.

That passage from Romans 4 makes the most sense when you show it in context:

    What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, has discovered? If Abraham was indeed justified by works, he had something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. And David speaks likewise of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are they whose lawless acts are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him.” (Romans 4:1-8)

And speaking as a former Catholic, it DOES teach that in order to remain in the state of grace/justified, good works MUST be performed which is really no different than saying you are justified by works. It teaches an "accursed" gospel.

22 posted on 07/13/2021 8:42:59 PM PDT by boatbums (Lord, make my life a testimony to the value of knowing you.)
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To: MurphsLaw
The Catholic Church teaches- and the Councils have condemned for centuries- that your claim of ANY idea that We can be be justified by Works- or EARN our salvation is not POSSIBLE- anyone who thinks that is "accursed".

I remember when I was a Catholic, dating my future wife (a Southern Baptist), I would lie to her about Catholicism, because I didn't want her to bug me about it. So, I recognize this tactic well.
25 posted on 07/14/2021 1:40:28 PM PDT by Old Yeller (Republican politicans love being in office, Democrat politicians love being in power.)
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