ASTEROID STRIKE AND TSUNAMI - THE SECOND TRUMPET OF REVELATION before 666 - A Video

IFB ^ | 6/20/21

[Philsworld]

What I will do is to not ping you, or MHG, unless either one of you makes a comment on a post and I am responding to that (which I have every right to do). MHG is fair game on this post (sorry I included you). He puts himself out there as some resident PTR expert. And yet, he can’t explain the ECF’s or Reformer’s statements on the restrainer of the Antichrist and how they are diametrically opposite to his view. WHY CAN’T HE DO THAT? It is an integral part of the theory. “Experts” from almost 2000 years ago and then during the reformation and after, contradict him. WHY CAN’T HE EXPLAIN THAT?

[SouthernClaire]

‘Cause you’re in a cult? ‘Cause you call people liars? Many different reasons, I’d suppose, Phil.

[Philsworld]

Well, when your good Christian friend, MHGinTN, thinks someone is a liar, HE CALLS THEM A LIAR...he has done it many, many times before. (He also calls them many other very unkind words as well). If someone is lying, they are a liar. The question is, are they in fact lying? (If they are, then they are a liar.)

As far as me being a cult member of the SDA church, the jury is still out on that one. I suspect I will be found not guilty and personally told of my innocence by the Judge Himself, as He tells me “well done, good and faithful servant” (that’s what we all pray for, right?). Other parties who have slandered or libeled me (or my church) as a cult member may not fare as well. We shall see, won’t we?

A lie of omission is an intentional failure to tell the truth in a situation requiring disclosure. MHG says his view of the restrainer is FACT. Yet, neither he, nor any of his prophets, such as Ken Johnson, Andy Woods, or Kenneth Copeland, etc... will discuss the viewpoint of the ECF’s and Reformers. There is only one reason for that, DECEIT.

[nonsporting]

I would encourage you to watch “After the Tribulation” and the entire Thessalonian series by Steve Anderson.

[boatbums]

It’s really more than that. The explanations WITH Scripture to back it up have been given many many times. It is dishonest to keep pretending no one has given answers to him before and he’s done so pretty much every time there is a new thread about the Rapture. He simply refuses to hear, research or examine the points. It’s fine to disagree and everyone has a right to reach their own conclusions regarding the end-times. But to condemn fellow believers as satanic liars and guilty of leading others into hell is not only wrong it is unnecessarily divisive. Let each man be fully persuaded in his own mind, is what we are advised in the Bible. In the major things unity, in the minor things liberty, in all things love.

[Philsworld]

I guess the ECF’s and Reformers All must have missed those texts. I’m glad you PTR guys found them.

Please show me (again?) the texts where the Holy Spirit is the Restrainer of the Antichrist.

[eyedigress]

1000 years in my sight is like a day.

A day in my sight is like 1000 years.

[Seven_0]

I would encourage you to watch “After the Tribulation” and the entire Thessalonian series by Steve Anderson.

The video spends a lot of time bashing Darby and Scofield and then agrees with them on Matthew 24.

Matt 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Simply go to Scofield’s note on this verse and the note clearly says that it is a reference to the Second Coming. The lie just won’t go away. Noah and his family were LEFT BEHIND.

I assume that you didn’t understand my questions in post #58.

[MHGinTN]

Actually, Enoch was removed albeit 120 years before the flood, and the Noah family was 'lifted up' in the Ark, above the drowning population which rejected Noah's preaching for those 120 years. A better illustration is Lot and what the Angel told him, that he -the angel- could do nothing until Lot was out of there and in Zoar. Lot was not what our churchy fri4nds would call a righteous man, living in Sodom and offering his daughters to protect the Angelic visitors, then committing incest after his rescue, but the Bible speaks to the status of his spirit not the actions of his body/soul complex.

The Body of Christ believers are not appointed to wrath but to obtain salvation. There are good reasons why the first several English translations of the Greek use 'The Departure' when translating 2nd Thess 2:3. Apostasia in the Greek is not a technocal word, a word which must always be held to one meaning/use. The word is made up of two words which translate as 'away from to stand'. Paul told us that we born agains who are alive when The Lord comes in the air to ggather us we will be changed int eh twinkling of an eye ... we will first be made to away from stand, then be caught up together with the dead raised to new glorified bodies, into the clouds to meet the Lord IN THE AIR and return to where He has been preparing a place for us. At the end of the tribulation seven years, we return with Him to clean up the mess and start His 1000 year reign, here.

[Philsworld]

I watched the entire video. Steve Anderson brought out some good points, specifically that:
1: The literal Jews are no longer God’s elect.
2: The tribulation is not God’s wrath
3: Nowhere in the bible is there any verse which states that Jesus Christ will come before the second coming.
4: Texts that PTR believers point to, actually describe the second coming.

So, Scofield and “left behind.” I’ll take a look at that later. What does Darby say about it? How many of the younger generation have grown up reading either of them? Not many, if any at all. The younger generation reads Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins (and a host of others now on the “left behind” bandwagon). They CLEARLY state that the non raptured are “LEFT BEHIND”, and the raptured are “taken” to heaven. That is the complete opposite of what the bible teaches. The PTR that MHGinTN and many others on this site “teach” say that they will be taken to heaven in the PTR and then the rest who don’t make it initially will be “left behind” and given a second chance in the 7 years, leading up to the real second coming of Christ. The bible, and specifically Jesus Christ, state that those left behind go to heaven and those taken die. It could not be any more clear. THOSE LEFT BEHIND ARE TAKEN UP TO BE WITH JESUS CHRIST, FOREVER, and there are no humans left alive on this earth. EVERYONE ELSE DIES.

I will say that I personally despise Steve Anderson. As a minister he is a hater of all religious denominations other than his own, including mine, the SDA church. And, it would appear that he hates Catholics the most (maybe he found another denomination he hates more, since I viewed him some years ago...Mormons, JW?) He is also an antigovernment loon.

But, he has it right in the statement that there is no Pre-Tribulation Rapture and the specific points I brought out at the beginning of this post. I believe he has many of the finer “details” wrong, however. That would include the Mark of the Beast (almost everything he says about it) and the antichrist showing up in the last 7 years. This is closer to the theory of FUTURISM, which is what the PTR is based on, started by the Jesuits of the Catholic church, in response to the Protestant Reformation and their label of the Catholic church as ANTICHRIST (they all said it, every single one of them, and you can include Sir Isaac Newton in that large group). So in the end, he and his followers will be fooled just as if they believed in the PTR. That’s my summation.

[Philsworld]

we will first be made to away from stand, then be caught up together with the dead raised to new glorified bodies, into the clouds to meet the Lord IN THE AIR and return to where He has been preparing a place for us.

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Hmmmm, righteous dead raised first, then the rest of the saved taken up to meet Jesus Christ in the air...Sounds like the singular event of the second coming to me. You forgot to mention something else that gathers IN THE AIR, and that would be eagles, vultures, and other birds of prey, to feast on the dead bodies that are “TAKEN”. And guess what? the dead that are slain (NOT THE RIGHTEOUS) are taken FIRST. There is not a chance on this earth that your scenario is the PTR, no chance at all.

http://aloha.net/~mikesch/psttrib.htm

Luke 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Luke 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luke 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luke 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luke 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

The above passage is frequently quoted to support a “secret” rapture, that neither the saved or the lost will be aware of what is happening at the time. Supposedly, millions of Christians will be “taken” and simply disappear mysteriously, leaving the world wondering where they went. Just what does this passage really intend to teach? Well, first let’s look at a parallel passage in Matthew:

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
...
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Note that in verse 39, the wicked who perished in the flood are described as being taken away. The wicked are taken first, not the righteous. Next, it tells us that it shall be exactly the same at the second coming of the Lord. Clearly in in days of Noah, those taken first perished, and so it will be again at the second coming. The Greek word translated as “took” in verse 39 is:

142. airo, ah’ee-ro; a prim. verb; to lift; by impl. to take up or away; fig. to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); spec. to sail away (i.e. weigh anchor); by Heb. [comp. H5375] to expiate sin:—away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).

Note that the word means to remove or to take away, as in to dispose of. Now notice that in Luke 17:37, a question is asked: “Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together”. This answer given by Jesus refers to the vultures gathering over the bodies of the wicked, those taken first and disposed of in Mat 24:39, which are all slain at the second coming (See also Rev 19:20-21).

[Philsworld]

Actually, Enoch was removed albeit 120 years before the flood

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You are NOT correct. Enoch begat Methuselah at age 65. He lived another 300 years on earth after that. God “took” Enoch when he was 365 years old. Methuselah was 300 years old at that time. He lived another 669 years (lived a total of 969 years) and died months before the flood (maybe sooner than that). God “took” Enoch 669 years before the flood.

And PLEASE note: the word “took” does NOT have the same meaning as “taken” in reference to the PTR. Enoch being taken by God has nothing to do with anything, other than the fact that Enoch was as close to God as any human could have been, and that’s why God took him.

[Philsworld]

I think this needs to be said again:

Now notice that in Luke 17:37, a question is asked: “Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together”. This answer given by Jesus refers to the vultures gathering over the bodies of the wicked, those taken first and disposed of in Mat 24:39, which are all slain at the second coming (See also Rev 19:20-21).

The wicked are taken FIRST, not the other way around, and definitely NOT left on earth, alive, for another 7 years, and given a second chance at salvation.

http://aloha.net/~mikesch/psttrib.htm

[Seven_0]

A better illustration is Lot and what the Angel told him, that he -the angel- could do nothing until Lot was out of there and in Zoar

Lot is certainly typical of the Pre-tribulation rapture. The men of Sodom could not find the door. Revelation 4:1

[Seven_0]

What does Darby say about it?

It’s been a while since I read Darby’s work, but this was not an issue in the 19th century. People are much more likely to write about the things when they disagree. F.W. Grant and Ironside mentioned it. It became an issue when the meaning got flipped due to carelessness. Mid 20th century.

They did not think the rapture was imminent. Ironside said it could not happen before Israel was restored to their land in unbelief. They got this one right. Israel is restored. Part of the evidence for the rapture is that blindness happens to Israel until the “times of the gentiles” ends. It appears that we are in the “times of the gentiles” now. That is the “Church Age” Revelation 2 and 3 the things that are. How do you see it?

[Seven_0]

The wicked are taken FIRST, not the other way around, and definitely NOT left on earth, alive, for another 7 years, and given a second chance at salvation.

In Revelation 14:14-20 the good one are taken and the evil ones are left and cast onto the great winepress of the wrath of God. Matthew 24 is not about the rapture. Jesus did not mention the rapture, perhaps he did not want Satan to know about it.

1 Cor 2:7-8 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

[Philsworld]

Regarding the Restrainer of the Antichrist being the Holy Spirit, according to Andy Woods...

---

The first thing I came across from AW on the restrainer of the Antichrist being the Holy Spirit was this powerpoint presentation? That’s what it looks like:

https://deanbibleministries.org/dbmfiles/slides/2016-EschatologySeminar-Woods-001.pdf

Beginning on page 54, he outlines his reasoning for the Holy Spirit as the restrainer (shallow and almost nonsensical). On page 59, he quotes Irenaeus from “Against Heresies 5.30.3

“But if it had been necessary to announce his
name plainly at the present time, it would
have been spoken by him who saw the
apocalypse. For it was not seen long ago, but
almost in our own time, at the end of the
reign of Domitian.”

I see at least 3 problems here. First, it’s not an exact quote from “Against Heresies”. Second, Irenaeus isn’t talking about the restrainer, he’s talking about the ANTICHRIST. Third, AW puts this “Against Heresies quote at 95 AD. Irenaeus lived from 120-202 AD and he wrote “Against Heresies near the end of his life” Here is an exact quote from Irenaeus:

“We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For that was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian’s reign.” (this is the last part of paragraph 3, as in 5.30.3)

Irenaeus is saying that if God wanted John to know the identity of the Antichrist, he would have told him and it would have been spelled out PLAINLY in the book of Revelation, not just in prophetic code.

Here’s something interesting in paragraph 4: (5.30.4)

“and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, THE HALLOWED SEVENTH DAY; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”

Imagine, Irenaeus mentioning the “hallowed seventh day”.

St. Irenaeus of Lyons (c. 130-202)
Adversus haereses (inter A.D. 180/199)
Book V, Chapter 26

John and Daniel have predicted the dissolution and desolation of the Roman Empire, which shall precede the end of the world and the eternal Kingdom of Christ. The Gnostics are refuted, those tools of Satan, who invent another Father different from the Creator.

1. In a still clearer light has John, in the Apocalypse, indicated to the Lord’s disciples what shall happen in the last times, and concerning the ten kings who shall then arise, among whom the empire which now rules [the earth] shall be partitioned. He teaches us what the ten horns shall be which were seen by Daniel, ...

Source: http://newadvent.org/fathers/0103526.htm

Tertullian (2nd-3rd Century)

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now hinders must hinder, until he be taken out of the way.” What obstacle is there but the Roman state, the falling away of which, by being scattered into ten kingdoms, shall introduce Antichrist upon (its own ruins)? “And then shall be revealed the wicked one, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming: even him whose coming is after the working of Satan, with all power, and signs, and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish.”

Source: http://newadvent.org/fathers/0301.htm

CHAP. XXXII.

There is also another and a greater necessity for our offering prayer in behalf of the emperors, nay, for the complete stability of the empire, and for Roman interests in general. For we know that a mighty shock im (43) pending over the whole earth—in fact, the very end of all things threatening dreadful woes-—is only retarded by the continued existence of the Roman empire. We have no desire, then, to be overtaken by these dire events; and in praying that their coming may be delayed, we are lending our aid to Rome’s duration.

Source: http://newadvent.org/fathers/0301.htm

Irenaeus and Tertullian both lived during the same time period and were both church fathers AND MORE THAN LIKELY, met and talked. They were also both born within 60 years of the death of John (Irenaeus was born about 30 years after). Why doesn’t Andy Woods mention any of this? How could Andy Woods not know that the quote from Irenaeus, quoted by Andy, HAD NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH THE RESTRAINER? It’s not like Andy wouldn’t have known, because Andy is a smart guy. I think I heard he was a lawyer? So then WHY wouldn’t Andy Woods mention this? Why keep it hidden?

Early Church Fathers
on the Timing of the Rise of Antichrist

http://aloha.net/~mikesch/fathers-on-antichrist.htm

[Just mythoughts]

These ‘threads’ remind me of Job’s chatty friends .. for near 38 chapters they say on this hand or that ... Then the Heavenly Father steps in and clears the deck ..

“times of the gentiles” is what brings ‘Jacob’s trouble’... yes, we are in Jacob’s trouble... problem is few even have a clue who it is they are chatting about and over. There will be no rapture ... Christ is coming here, to God’s green earth to collect a harvest ... and ‘we’ are suppose to be ‘watching’ and waiting for His return... The first supernatural entity that gets dumped on this earth ... or ‘rises from the sea’, is the instead of fake Jesus... Christ said the majority of the inhabitants of God’s green earth will worship him.

[Philsworld]

In Revelation 14:14-20 the good one are taken and the evil ones are left and cast onto the great winepress of the wrath of God.

---

Rev 14-20 is addressing the fate of the wicked, FIRST. It says nothing about the saved being taken, it just says the earth was reaped (saved and lost dealt with at the same time). The wicked are taken (cast into the great winepress) first. The saved are then dealt with. Makes perfect sense and is parallel to the verses in the new testament where one is taken and the other is left.

[nonsporting]

Simply go to Scofield’s note on this verse (Matth 24:39) and the note clearly says that it is a reference to the Second Coming.

Scofield can't use 24:39 to argue for Christ's imminent return (and pre-trib rapture) and then treat 24:29 as post-trib gathering of the elect/Jews -- :39 comes after :29. 2 Thess 2:3 disproves Christ's imminent return.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; - 2Th 2:3

Until these two events occur, Christ's return is not imminent.

Paul explains how the Noah example pertains.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. - 1Th 5:2-5

Noah and his family are children of the light. Noah's neighbors ​were not. The unsaved will be taken unawares.

You didn’t understand my questions in post #58.

Your questions presume pre-trib elements and that complicates timelines. Here is Anderson's timeline based heavily on Daniel chapters 6-12 and Revelation. This is a post-trib, pre-wrath (PTPW) timeline a human being can follow. Daniels 70th Week