Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: boatbums

You are taking one verse Romans 4:5 OUT OF CONTEXT and ASSUME Paul is eliminating all works of all kinds from salvation.

First, Paul does not contradict himself going from Rom 4 to Rom 6. In Rom 6 Paul put obedience BEFORE salvation/justification, Rom 6:16-17. Furthermore Paul and James do not contradict each other, James plainly shows that obedient works justify.

Paul——obey from the heart>>>>>>>>>>justified/freed from sin
James-——works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justify

So Paul and James are in 100% agreement that obedient works do justify.


If you examine the first 4 chapters of Romans, and not pull one verse out of context, you will find NOWHERE did Paul ever eliminate obedience from being justified. The only work Paul shows in Rom chapters 1-4 that does not justify was the perfect flawless works the OT law of Moses required.

Note in Romans chapters 1 and 2 Paul shows that all, both Jew and Gentile have sinned therefore are under sin. All those under sin (Jews and Gentiles) are need of justification.

Note in the pivotal chapter of Romans 3. Paul starts this chapter by telling us what does NOT justify those under sin (the OT law of Moses) and spends the last part of Roman 3 telling what does justify those under sin (faith).

Paul begins chapter 3 talking about how the Jews were given the oracles of God, that is were given the OT law of Moses. That OT law provided the Jews many advantages over the Gentiles.
Yet one thing that OT law could not do for the Jew was justify the Jew. That OT law required the strict work of perfect, flawless law keeping to be justified which none of the Jews could do. Leading Paul to declare in Gal 3:11 that “no man is justified by the law in the sight of God.” This is why in Rom 3:9 that the Jews, though they had the OT, were no better than the Gentiles for BOTH Jew and Gentile are under sin.

Paul closes chapter 3 by showing faith justifies, he did not say faith alone justifies. So the only work in the context that Paul does eliminate from justification are the perfect works required by the OT law and did NOT eliminate a faithful obedience.

In Rom 4 Paul gives an example of a Gentile (Abraham) and a Jew (David). We know from Rom chapters 1 and 2 Jew and Gentile are under sin therefore David and Abraham were under sin (neither man was perfectly sinless) and need of justification. We know from Rom 3 the perfect works required by the OT law could not justify them so they must have been justified by an obedient faith, not by faith alone.

Rom 4:5 “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

So Abraham (and David) “worketh not” meaning they did not work to keep the OT law perfectly to be justified but instead both justified by an obedient believing.

Paul quotes David who said “ Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.”

Question: is it those who OBEY God’s will, who OBEY in repenting of sins whose iniquities are covered and sins forgiven? Or is it the disobedient who will not obey God, who will not repent whose iniquities are forgiven, whose sins are covered?

Obviously it is those who OBEY are the ones justified (iniquities forgiven/win covered).

For nowhere does the Bible teach God forgives those that will not obey Him. So all the impenitent will be lost.

So IN CONTEXT we find the only work Paul mentioned that does not justify is the perfect flawless law keeping required by the OT law. Paul does require a faithful obedience in order for one’s sins to be forgiven.

I know this is rather a long post from me but was necessary to show how to KEEP THINGS IN CONTEXT.


228 posted on 10/14/2020 11:01:02 AM PDT by Oneanddone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 202 | View Replies ]


To: Oneanddone

If you examine the first 4 chapters of Romans, and not pull one verse out of context, you will find NOWHERE did Paul ever eliminate obedience from being justified.

***

OH HEY, lookit the strawman argument!

Stop repeating lies about what I believe and maybe I’ll take you seriously.

The rest of your post is not worth replying to because you have started with a false assumption and built everything else on top of that falsehood.


230 posted on 10/14/2020 12:04:38 PM PDT by Luircin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 228 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson