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To: sasportas

.....”As to what “bothers” me: false doctrines bother me, and need to be called out for what they are...man made doctrines”......

Rapture Doctrine is based on scripture.....as written in Thessalonians 4:13–18, which teaches the doctrine of the rapture ...and The truth of it is Certain.

“For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words.”..I Thessalonians 4:13–18

After Paul’s teaching on the rapture, the very next topic
beginning in 5:2 is the Day of the Lord, the day of His wrath at the second coming. The sequence of events favors the pre-tribulational view, which holds that the rapture is first, followed by the Tribulation in which God pours out His judgment on the unbelieving world, climaxed by Christ’s second coming.

Only the believer in the pre-tribulational rapture can really believe that Jesus could come at any moment. There aren’t any further signs given in Scripture to look for prior to the rapture. The signs in God’s Word regarding the end times are signs of Christ’s second coming, not signs of the rapture.

Additionally 1 Corinthians 15:52 tells us that this will
happen “in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye.”
There is going to be a resurrection of the dead, then a rapture of the living. Living saints are going to receive new bodies as they are caught up to be with the Lord.

This is where I stand.

However what is important is that all Christians hold in common that Christ will ultimately return bodily, visibly, and gloriously to reign and rule with His resurrected and transformed saints forever and ever. The details of this great event will be made known in God’s own time.


135 posted on 05/09/2020 9:51:44 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww

With all due respect, you are getting the cart before the horse. You don’t start with Paul, you start with Jesus in Matt. 24.

Jesus knows more about prophecy than anybody, he the greatest prophet that ever lived.

He knew he was about to go to the cross, and the church to be left in the hands of the apostles. He knew what would befall his church in the endtime, the apostles the “transcendent you” in his discourse, he thus gave all the signs for his church to look for right up to the “end.” And that “end” is in verses 29-31.

He said nothing about a pretrib rapture, only the one at the “end.”

Paul and every other NT writer, simply followed Jesus in Matt. 24. The additional second coming pretribs think they see in Paul’s writings, including the ones you mentioned, is simply the same post-trib coming he set forth in Matt. 24.

It’s that simple, really. It’s all done in one event.


138 posted on 05/09/2020 10:11:46 AM PDT by sasportas
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