Thoughts on The Timing Of The Rapture

By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. (Hebrews 11:4-6)

The famous “Faith Chapter” in the book of Hebrews, begins with two Saints, Abel and Enoch as examples of faith which we are to imitate. Faith is the point, for faith is the only way to please God.

I once asked the LORD, ‘Why Faith? Why is that what you require?” I believe I received several answers in the form of scripture and impressions, from the LORD. God requires faith, because we simply cannot save ourselves. Only God can save our souls, no one can redeem themselves, therefore Faith is required, because faith glorifies God and not man.

Another reason for the requirement of faith that came to me, is that our problems began when we quit believing in the goodness of God. Adam and Eve were willing to entertain a false and degraded notion of God, that He was holding something back that would be good for the first couple. The Serpent bore false witness about the LORD, and they believed it.

The way back? It has to be faith. We must repent and believe again in the goodness of God.

The “hall of faith” begins with Abel and Enoch. One Saint who was murdered for his faith, and for bearing witness to God in a hostile world. There would be literally millions upon millions who would follow in his footsteps, being willing to let go of their life rather than deny the truth of God.

The other Saint, Enoch, was a man who lived in a kind of “end times scenario” living in the time leading up to the flood. It was a day of Apostasy, but Enoch walked with God, until God took Him home. He didn’t die , He was raptured. God took him home, to be with himself.

I believe that we also live in an end-time. I have no doubt that Jesus is coming, and in our lifetime. What makes us unique is the re-emergence of the nation of Israel, in 1948, in fulfillment of the prophecies about the last of the last days. All of the prophets pre-supposed that there would be a national Israel, and a Jewish occupied city of Jerusalem, as well as a controversy over Judea, (The West bank) which would engulf the whole world.

The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him. Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. (Zechariah 12:1-3)

Which brings us back to our two Saints at the beginning of Hebrews 11. One died, He was martyred for his witness to God. The other one did not die. He was Raptured. Both of these Saints lived by Faith and Pleased God.

No doubt. many of us will end up dying. Perhaps some of us will be given an opportunity to be martyred. We are Saints and love God, but all things being equal, unless the LORD returns, we will die, one way or another.

(Of course, Christians don’t really die, they “go to sleep”) but the real point is that Faith is the only way to please God.

But according to the scriptures, there is a unique end-times event, coming, as I hope I have pointed out in this series, called the Rapture, or “Our gathering together unto Him”, “the Episynagogue” and Jesus coming to “take us where (He)…is, unto himself”. The LORD is coming to snatch us off the earth with a swift and irresistable power”.

To participate in such an event is a rare honor among the countless Millions of Saints who believed in Jesus before us.

But whether we die, or are martyred, o whether we are raptured, the real point is that we must live our lives by Faith,which is the only way to please God.

This is why I do not enter into the countless discussions as to the timing of the Rapture. “Will The Rapture be pre- ,mid , or post Tribulation”?

* It involves the “dead in Christ” as well as “We who are alive, until the coming of the LORD”.

As far as I know, all else can only be speculation. God doesn’t want us to know the exact timing otherwise it would be clearer. I am glad there is a Rapture, and my prayer has always been that I be involved in it, while alive. But I cannot say with certainty what the timing of it is, so I don’t.

What counts is Faith in Jesus. Not dead works, but a living, vital, infectious faith. Let us have a faith which still moves us to confess and forsake our sins, to Love and seek God. To forgive and love our brothers, and a faith which moves us to share with others what God has shown to us. Is your faith alive? Do you have oil in your lamp? Are you current with God?

We Overcome the World by our faith. “This is the victory that overcometh the World…our faith”. We overcome the Spirit of antiChrist also, by our faith. So also we overcome the sins that so easily beset us, and the Coldness and soul deadening effect of this world, by our Faith.

Of course we want out of here, we can increasingly see that there is nothing in this World for we who believe, but rejection and opposition.I want Jesus to come, and Long for the Rapture. I am either going up in it, or I am gong to die, but one way or another we are leaving.

Either way, the point is Faith. So I will leave the timing of the Rapture to God, and just strive to be counted worthy to attain it, whether ded or alive.

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. (Luke 21:35)

The "Church" didn't invent leaving this earth without dying. Enoch was the first to do so. I read some of what you linked to. The Papacy/Church probably does represent the one who changes the times and etc. The timing fits Daniels' timeline, if you don't get hung up on literal years - not to say it's not a shadow of the final prophecy. The value in this realization is the knowledge that Christ's return could be sooner than most think.

Some reading for you and others:

Rapture Bible Verses

https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/rapture-bible-verses/

The Rapture in the Old Testament

http://www.lamblion.us/2012/07/the-rapture-in-old-testament.html?m=1

In Case of the Rapture

http://incaseoftherapture.com/old-testament-support-for-the-rapture/

Not directed just to you, but to all: Believe what you want and allow others to do the same. There are far more serious mistakes both sides could make. Forgetting to love one another and putting the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit in a box are all close to the top. We ALL need to be much more humble, and less arrogant in what we think we understand - because God, and His realm are beyond our understanding - and He is watching us.

God’s Promise to Isaac
…4 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky, and I will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations of the earth will be blessed, 5because Abraham listened to My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

So, let me ask the both of you this: Let’s just say there’s a guy that becomes a born again Christian. Yes, he is saved. But he begins cheating on his wife, he lies to everyone he meets, he wants to try homosexuality and likes it. So he divorces his wife and moves in with then marries his male lover. He can’t get enough of that man sex. His husband cheats on him with troop of male midgets. The guy plans and carries out his husband’s murder.

The guy falls into depression and the only thing that makes him happy is stealing and he’s good at it. Does it day and night. He also loves to drink and becomes a drunkard. Then he begins to extort people to get more money. Throw in bearing false witness. He passes out on the curb and when he wakes up he sees a book about witchcraft. He’s into it and becomes a certified witch. He does everything in 1 Cor 6, Gal 5, Rev 21 and the 10 commandments that God specifically tell us not to do and if we continue to do them and not ask forgiveness and are unrepentant, we will not be in the kingdom of heaven.

One day he meets a man he knew in his church when he was married to his wife. The guy heard what had been going on over the past few years and was concerned for his salvation. Says, “you shouldn’t be doing this stuff and you need to cut it out now” Aren’t you a born again Christian? Guy says he was then and still is and to stay out of his F’ing business.

What do you two think are his chances for salvation if he doesn’t repent? What if it’s just one of these sins that he’s unrepentant of? Does it make a difference?

Can you claim salvation and live a lawless life?

Pre-Reformation Era Interpretations of Anti-Christ, man of sin, little horn, harlot, Babylon, Beast of Revelation, Abomination of desolation, etc… : (pope, Catholic Church, papacy, Roman Church, Bishop of Rome, Rome, etc…)

Dante Alighieri
Michael of Cesena
Johannes de Rupescissa
Francesco Petrarch
John Milicz
John Wycliffe
Matthias of Janow
R. Wimbledon
John Purvey
Walter Brute
John Huss
Girolamo Savonarola

Reformation Era Interpretations of Anti-Christ :

John Calvin
Martin Luther
Philipp Melanchthon
Andreas Osiander
Nicolaus von Amsdorf
Johann Funch
Virgil Solis
Georg Nigrinus
Flacius
David Chytraeus
Johann Oecolampaius
Heinrich Bullinger
William Tyndale
George Joys
Nicholas Ridley
Hugh Latimer
John Bale
John Jewel
John Foxe
Anglican Formulas
John Knox
John Napier
Thomas Brightman
David Pareus

Post Reformation Era Interpretations of Anti-Christ:

Roger Williams
James I of England
George Downham
George Pecard
Hugh Broughton
Andress Holwig
Matthias Hoe
Daniel Cramer
Joseph Mede
Johannes Gerhard
Thomas Goodwin
John Tillinghast
Henry More
William Sherwin
Johann H. Alsted
Thomas Beverley
Jacques Phillipot
Pierre Jurieu
Drue Cressener
“Mysteries Finished”
William Lowth
Johannes Cocceius
Robert Fleming, Jr.
Georg her. Giblehr
Daniel Whitby
William Whiston
Heinrich Horch
Charles Daubux
Sir Isaac Newton
Th. Crinsox de Bionens
Thomas Pyle
Johann Aal. Bengel
Berienberg Bible
John Willison
Thomas Newton
John Gill
John Wesley
Johann Ph. Petri
R. M.
Hans Wood
James Becheno
Joseph Priestly
George Bell
Christian G. Thube
David Simpson
Edward King
Joseph Galloway
Richard Valpy
Jean G. de la Flechers
The Baptist confession of faith
The Westminster confession of faith
Charles Spurgeon
Rev. J.A. Wylie

and many more.....It is certainly not just me saying it. And, many on this list were tortured and murdered for saying it.

Oh my, you are so ignorant of what salvation means and is! There thre tenses to Salvation: past tense the moment I believed in Whom God sent for my salvation; that is justification and it marks the moment God spearateed my soul and spirit by His sharper than any two-edged sword Word Of God.

The next tense is present, as in He is transforming my behavior mechanism, my soul of mind, emotions and will as I submit my 'want to' to His direction as He abides in my born again spirit. This is the PROCESS (meaning it takes time) Sanctification. That spirit has been separated out of the soul, the behavior mechanism which knows only how to sin. The difference now is that I am unable to sin without deep regret because I grieve the Holy Spirit within my human spirit. My born again spirit has GOD abiding in my before dead spirit, so that my spirit cannot sin (1 John 3:9), but my dirty old behavior mechanism can and does sin, but I have an advocate, Jesus Christ the Righteous Who cleanses me when I turn to confess to Him.

Think of those two, the Justification and Sanctification, as God slices deep into the soul and separates out a beautiful crystalline space where He then abides with me. Sin splashes mud and filth on the outside of the place but Christ cleanse it off so the glory of GOD's Presence can shine forth again. The third tense is a future, a moment Promised by God when Jesus will descend from the third Heaven to the first Heaven and gather all those in whose spirit God is abiding, and return to The Father's House. That is the Glorification which is getting very close now to happening.

If you insist on hypotheticals, refer to what Paul wrote to the little namd of believers in Caorinth, to put a very sinful man out of their midst for satan to sift until the day of redemption when that man will have everything of his life made into cinders but he himself will be in Heaven as if by fire.

You confuse the ceremonial law with God’s eternal law. Here’s a good article to help you with that and here’s the website information if you want to research further.
https://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/BQA/k/157/What-Are-Ordinances-Colossians-214-Ephesians-215.htm

What Are the ‘Ordinances’ of Colossians 2:14 and Ephesians 2:15?
Related
• Are the Sabbath and Holy Days Done Away?
• Was God’s Law Nailed to the Cross?
• The Covenants, Grace, and Law (Part 6)

To begin, it should be understood that the word “ordinances” in Colossians 2:14 and Ephesians 2:15 does not refer to God’s laws. It is translated from the Greek word dogma and refers generally to opinions, judgments, and decrees. Such ordinances could be public decrees by government officials or religious decrees by religious officials. We should, however, treat these two verses separately because they deal with different subjects.

Colossians 2:14 should be seen in its context, specifically with the preceding verse:
And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. (verses 13-14)

The New King James version has rendered dogma as “requirements,” a perfectly justifiable translation. The phrase “handwriting of requirements,” however, begs an explanation. Its basic meaning is “a written statement of obligation,” much like a traffic citation, which lists the laws that its recipient broke. Thus, it is a record of wrongdoing or guilt. We can verify this by seeing that the clause in which it appears restates the one just before it: “having forgiven you all trespasses.” What Paul is telling these Colossians is that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ has “wiped out” all record of their guilt in breaking God’s law. That is good news!

Christ came to pay the penalty for all our sins. Accepting His sacrifice releases us from the penalty of death incurred through our sin and cleanses our conscience from all guilt (Ephesians 1:7; Hebrews 9:14; I John 1:7; 2:2). God says that when He forgives our sins, He removes it “as far as east is from the west” (Psalm 103:12). This truly is “tak[ing] it out of the way”!

Ephesians 2:15 uses dogma in a different way, and again, we need to see the context of Paul’s argument:
For He Himself is our peace, who has made both [Jew and Gentile] one, and has broken down the middle wall of division between us, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. (Verses 14-16)

Paul himself defines what this “law of commandments contained in ordinances” is; it is “the enmity”—which he mentions twice (verses 15-16)—between Jews and Gentiles (see verses 11-12). He also calls it “the middle wall of division” in verse 14. Whatever “the law of commandments contained in ordinances” is, it causes hatred and division. This rules out right away that it refers to God’s law, for it, Paul writes in Romans 7:12, “is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.”

We can solve our dilemma with one passage from Jesus’ own mouth, speaking to the scribes and Pharisees of His day:
Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? . . . Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: . . . “And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.” (Matthew 15:3-9)

These “commandments of men” were the restrictive pharisaical decrees burdening the Jews and those among the Gentiles who desired to worship God. These human ordinances—additions by men to what God revealed in the Old Testament—contributed to feelings of prejudice, animosity, suspicion, and separation between the Jews and Gentiles who were being called into God’s church. These ordinances acted as a “middle wall of division.” However, Jesus abolished that barrier through His supreme sacrifice: “For He Himself is our peace” (Ephesians 2:14).

In Paul’s day, many newly-begotten Christians continued to suffer from the burden of their former teachings. Some converted Jews found it difficult to forget and change that deeply-ingrained part of their lives. It affected even someone as converted as the apostle Peter (see Galatians 2:11-12). Paul explains to the Ephesians, mostly Gentiles, that Christians comprise an entirely new community that is not dependent at all upon the manmade laws and regulations of their former religions, but only upon what God had revealed: “Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone” (Ephesians 2:19-20).

Christ abolished the Talmudic traditions—all of which were yokes of bondage (Galatians 5:1; Matthew 23:4)—as necessary for salvation. Jesus, however, did not do away with any part of God’s law. In fact, He made it possible for both Jew and Gentile to become spiritual Israelites, the children of God (Galatians 3:26-29; 6:16), so they might live together in freedom within His perfect law (James 1:25). He says in Matthew 5:17, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.”

Yes, to fulfill, to observe, to keep, and by doing so, He set us a perfect example as to how we ought to live. We are “to walk just as He walked” (I John 2:6). The apostle Peter writes that Christ left “us an example, that you should follow His steps” (I Peter 2:21). Paul says, “Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ” (I Corinthians 11:1).

God’s law is good and for our benefit: “You shall therefore keep His statutes and His commandments, which I command you today, that it may go well with you and with your children after you, and that you may prolong your days in the land which the LORD your God is giving you for all time” (Deuteronomy 4:40).

Jesus Christ did indeed do away with the unnecessary and unprofitable requirements of men, but the law of God is binding on us more than ever. We are to keep it in the Spirit as well as the letter. Even so, the benefits of keeping God’s laws are wonderful and many. Jesus says, “If you know these things, happy are you if you do them” (John 13:17).

What do you do with the book of Romans then ? Especially Rom. 3:19-28?
Also what about Hebrews 9:16,17. Remember who this was written to, Hebrews, not Hebrews and Gentiles.

I believe that Hebrews through Revelation were/are written to those Jews who will be going through the Tribulation. Remember that God promised Abraham that Israel would be a nati9n of PRIESTS to the other nations. Which is exactly what Hebrews is about: a nation of PRIESTS.

Hebrews, 1 and 2 Peter, James, 1&2 John and Jude all speak to the Hebrews, the twelve tribes scattered abroad, the last days, the last time, etc. It is the wrapping up of prophecy. That was promised to Israel. The Old Testament, including Matthew, Mark, Luke and John (yes those gospels are part of the Old Testament. See Hebrews 9:16,17 to see this so. The New Testament doesn’t actually begin until the Day of Pentecost.
A Jewish celebration attended and preached to by Peter and the 11. It was not for Gentiles. This Testament was interrupted when God blinded and deafened Israel and set her aside because of her unbelief.

It will be taken up again when God once again turns His eyes to Israel, that’s what the tribulation is all about. And Hebrews through Revelation.

What about us? What happens to the Gentiles? That’s what Paul’s Epistles are all about. The ONE NEW MAN, the CHURCH THE BODY OF CHRIST. you will learn in those Epistles where, when, why, how it began, what our commission is, and how we are going to be removed, so God can once again turn HIS love, attention, and promises to Gus Covenant people, the Jews.

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