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To: Elsie

Thw whole “damnation” thing is interesting in that “damned” only occurs three times in the bible. Two times it means they will be condemned (strongs 2632), and one means judged (2919).

And condemned means “judged worthy of punishment”.

And that is where the question is begged: What is the punishment? We know it is eternal in duration, but there seems to be disagreement of the condition of the person punished there.

I don’t think it’s being grounded or wearing a dunce cap. I think it’s something else. Maybe capital punishment. And even more permanent.

One needs to ask what is the purpose of “punishment”? Why do we punish our children. Why is anyone “punished”?

I generally accept this definition: inflict a penalty or sanction on (someone) as retribution for an offense, especially a transgression of a legal or moral code.


139 posted on 03/06/2020 1:08:18 PM PST by cuban leaf (The political war playing out in every country now: Globalists vs Nationalists)
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To: cuban leaf
Thw whole “damnation” thing is interesting in that “damned” only occurs three times in the bible. Two times it means they will be condemned (strongs 2632), and one means judged (2919).

Restricting damnation to simply the word "damned" is absurd, like as restricting salvation to simply the word "saved" would be. The word for "damned" itself occurs 19 times in the NT, and in many other places damnation is described.

And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 8:11-12)

Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable. (Luke 3:17)

There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. (Luke 13:28)

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:41-42)

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:49-50)Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 22:13)

The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 24:50-51)

And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 25:30)

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: (Matthew 25:31-32) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: (Matthew 25:41) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Matthew 25:46)

And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. (Mark 9:43-48)

And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. (Luke 16:22-24)

Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. (Luke 16:27-28)

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. (2 Thessalonians 1:9-10)

The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. (Revelation 14:10-11)

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Revelation 19:20)

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

Note: attempting to disallow eternal torment on disputable grammatical grounds cannot prevail since it is hardly tenable that the Lord's dire warnings, including hacking off appendage or gouging out eyes to avoid be cast into unquenchable hell fire, would have much of a deterrent effect if this simply refers to being burned up. Being able to indulge in decades of fulfilling lusts in exchange for momentary punishment would be considered worth it by most who seek to fulfill such.

Moreover, people will be cast into the same lake of fire the devil will, who shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever, and the beast and false prophet were still there after 1,000 years.

In addition,the account of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31 not a parable, in which real names are never used, and which stories employ known physical realities which correspond to spiritual realities (i.e. "tares" = "the children of the wicked"), and never teach science fiction in this correspondence. However, if there is no such thing as being cognizant of torment after death, then for the first and only time the Lord would be engaging in science fiction. And it is also stretch to make the rich man in Hell correspond to some mere spiritual reality that is not that of the afterlife and Hell.​

And that is where the question is begged: What is the punishment? We know it is eternal in duration, but there seems to be disagreement of the condition of the person punished there.

After the above texts, your only question should be the degree of punishment, which does differ according to the degree of accountability and iniquity.

He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment , suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (Hebrews 10:28-29. KJV)

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation . (Matthew 23:14. KJV)

Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you. But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city. (Luke 10:11-12. KJV)

149 posted on 03/06/2020 3:02:09 PM PST by daniel1212 ( Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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