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To: ealgeone; MikelTackNailer; Salvation; fidelis; Wonder Warthog; ebb tide
The Great Sign in the Heavens in just that: a great sign in the heavens. It is not an actual 60-ft. Jolly Great Giant Lady, no more than the Ark seen in the first part of the vision is THE actual box made of acacia wood and plated in gold, the very same one that was in the Temple.

These are what is called multivalent symbols, as contrasted to allegorical figures. With allegory, usually one abstract idea (like Truth, Wisdom, Sloth, Chastity) is represented by one character. Multivalent symbols can represent related or congruent people and ideas without a one-to-one correspondence.

So the Great Sign can evoke the figure of

She is unquestionably Mary (since the Messiah's one-and-only mother is Mary) but she is also Daughter Zion (undergoing travail) and the Church (undergoing persecution), since v. 17 says the Dragon goes off to wage war "against the rest of her offspring---those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus."

The faithful can be called "children of the Church" and Mary herself has been honored with the name "Mother of Christians," because she is Christ's mother and we are all members of the Body of Christ. Also because we are like the Beloved Disciple at the foot of the Cross, where Jesus gave His Mother a "Son" and gave the Church His mother. "

Ealgeone, I think you would find an interested and respectful audience if you would tell us what YOU think or what YOUR CHURCH teaches about that mysterious Woman Clothed With The Sun. That would be fascinating.

You stumble when you try to tell *Catholics* what *Catholics* believe, because you mostly don't get it right.

20 posted on 01/31/2020 3:54:10 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Let us commend ourselves, and one another, and our whole life, unto Christ Our God.")
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To: Mrs. Don-o
You stumble when you try to tell *Catholics* what *Catholics* believe, because you mostly don't get it right.

I have correctly stated what Roman Catholics claim about Revelation 12:1. You cannot refute that.

I have also correctly stated what Roman Catholics claim about Geneses 3:15. You cannot refute that either.

*****

The faithful can be called "children of the Church" and Mary herself has been honored with the name "Mother of Christians," because she is Christ's mother and we are all members of the Body of Christ.

Mary is NOT the mother of all Christians.

There is no Scriptural support for this. None.

It's more of the idolatry of the worship of Mary that Rome elevates her to this non-biblical position.

Also because we are like the Beloved Disciple at the foot of the Cross, where Jesus gave His Mother a "Son" and gave the Church His mother.

IF the Roman Catholic understood the Greek of the text they claim for this they would understand this was a private matter between Jesus, John and Mary.

26When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” 27Then He said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household. John 19:26-27 NASB

Christ gave Mary to John to be in his household.

The Greek word used here, idios conveys the meaning of: 2398 ídios (a primitive word, NAS dictionary) – properly, uniquely one's own, peculiar to the individual. 2398 /ídios ("uniquely one's own") is "stronger than the simple possessive pronoun ('own'). This emphatic adjective means 'private, personal' " (WS, 222).https://biblehub.com/greek/2398.htm

The lack of knowledge of the Greek hinders the Roman Catholic and causes them to stumble into error on this passage....among others.

IF He was giving Mary to the church He would have said so.

Roman Catholicism reads a great deal into the texts that isn't there to support their Mariolatry.

It has caused great error and has mislead many.

21 posted on 01/31/2020 4:10:17 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: Mrs. Don-o
"You stumble when you try to tell *Catholics* what *Catholics* believe, because you mostly don't get it right."

Boy, ain't THAT the truth.

27 posted on 01/31/2020 6:02:44 PM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel and NRA Life Member)
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