Posted on 09/20/2019 9:01:36 AM PDT by pastorbillrandles
Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” ( John 6:28-29)
Salvation cannot be obtained by our personal merit. Thank God , because there is not one of us who could ever merit salvation. We cannot earn it, nor can we who have received the gift, ever lose it due to lack of merit. The scriptures make it obvious, “By the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight…”.
None of us can earn our salvation, nor can we in anywise put God in debt to us, all that He gives is freely given, it is grace. Salvation is Grace, undeserved favor.
If we couldn’t do anything to earn it, neither can we forfeit it by what we do. I do not believe that there is any particular sin that a believer can do which would cost him his salvation.
I cannot emphasize these blessed and simple truths enough, because those of us who set out the case against ‘unconditional assurance’ , (ie Once Saved Always Saved) are always accused of preaching ” good works”, or works based salvation.
Thank God for scriptures like Ephesians 2:8-10,
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. ( Ephesians 2:8-10)
There is nothing I could ever do to earn my salvation, nor to lose it, nor to add to it or take away from it, thank God. Therefore there is nothing I can personally boast in, all of the glory for my salvation goes to Jesus, who,“…has Loved us and bought us from our sins with his own blood”.(Revelation 1:5)
Salvation is not unconditional however. There is one, and only one condition, and that is that we must believe. “He that believes…shall have eternal life”. “This is the Work, that you believe on Him whom the Father has sent”.
Over and over again, we are told by the Apostles that we must believe to be saved. All the Father requires is belief, steadfast, loyal faith. He knows we are weak, unsteady, liable to sin, fall and defect, yet all he requires is belief.
Is the requirement to believe, in the bible a “one time” experience, or is belief seen as an ongoing loyalty which sustaines to the very end, (the goal) of Salvation ?
Popular Bible teacher Charles Stanley presents a very common misconception about saving Faith when He assures people,
Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy.” (Stanley Charles, Eternal Security- Can You Be sure? Thomas Nelson pg 93)
The Apostles never taught anything like that. Instead they taught believers to “Hold fast the profession of their hope … to the end…”
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. ( Hebrews 3:6)
The danger to the soul, according to the teaching of Hebrews , is ‘unbelief’. The example from the Old Testament was the incident with the 12 spies. All of Israel heard the gospel of the land flowing with milk and honey. All of them rejoiced, until they came to Kadesh Barnea, where they saw the Giants.
From then on, only two out of that entire whole truly believed! The rest fell short of entering into God’s rest, because they cast aside their confidence, in unbelief.
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; ( Hebrews 3:14)
What does this say about people now, who once believed passionately in Christ and the gospel, but who no longer “hold fast”? I know people who set out believing in Christ, but who no longer maintain faith. Are they still saved? As we pointed out in the last message, “whoever goes on believing shall be saved…” , not whoever ever believed at one time!
Saving Faith is not mere mental assent to a set of propositions. It is an ongoing commitment of a loyalty to a Revelation from God, much like the vows at a wedding. it is “faithfulness”, a response to what God has done and revealed. Jesus called it “abiding in the vine” in John 15.
Neither Jesus or the Apostles ever held forth anything similar to Charles Stanley’s proposition that one can be saved on a temporary belief, which one eventually defects from. Believers “go on believing” whatever it takes. If that belief calls for self renunciation, so be it. When the belief requires personal repentance, true believers repent. None of those things are “works” they are simply elements of the one and only condition God has set on salvation, Faith.
[[ “Once Saved, Always Saved” isn’t a license to ignore the teachings of Christ, or the Father, in how we live or treat one another.]]
Nope- it sure isn’t- infact it’s just the opposite- a license to live the best we can, be kind to others- and try not to backslide- but if we do- thankfully we are still saved because if our salvation relies solely on us- we’re doomed- we commit so many sins constantly that we can never hope to keep our salvation- I’ve asked before, if we keep our own salvation, at what % of sin do we lose it? 10%? 5%? 2%? 1%? 0.00136%?
[[Salvation is the work of God through Christ by which He transforms the hopeless sinner into His own child who will, at some future point, enter into a perfect fellowship with God for eternity.]]
That is a good point worth perhaps diving into- We will never be perfectly sinless here on earth- ever- this side of heaven we are plagued by the old nature, and riddled with sin- even the best of men struggle with sin- Even Paul struggled with it- the things he would do he did not (which is sin) an the things he would not he did (again, sin)
This is why i ask, if we are to maintain our own salvation- then what % of sin is acceptable since we continue in sin until the day we leave this earth? In heaven there can be no sin at all- so what good is a salvation here on earth that is only partial? It must be partial, IF, ALL of our sins are not covered once and for all- Our standing in heaven is blameless- perfect- spotless, sinless through the completed redeeming work of Jesus Christ- We are redeemed, made blameless and holy, because of Him
another point to back up the sinless nature of our salvation was that John was whisked to heaven- IF man is not sinless, then he could not have entered into heaven- John was only sinless because of Christ had completed in him- not because of anything on John’s part to maintain his salvation- our best works are as filthy rags in God’s sight- so even our best efforts at maintaining salvation are Not acceptable to God as a means of salvation
Who is the Only one to have that righteousness among men? Jesus Christ.
Whose righteousness is imputed to me a sinner saved by HIS GRACE? The Holy One of God, the Holy Spirit
Where is this Righteousness imputed regarding me a hopeless sinner? On my dead spirit, made alive by the Holy Spirit of God
What or Who guarantees that seal? GOD
Why would you presume you can break a seal made by GOD when you absolutely believe you cannot put that seal upon your spirit? Sin is a powerful killer, but it is not even close to being more powerful than a Promise from God.
Well and truly stated.
When you sin.....are you still a believer?
Paul wrote that we will be CHANGED bodily in a moment in the twinkling of an eye (very fast), that the corruptible flesh must put on incorruption. I read that to mean the corruptible nature inherited from Adam will be done away with and I will be transformed into a being in whom GOD;s righteousness prevent me from sinning just as Paul taught that Jesus was without sin because His Seed remained within Him, the sinless Righteousness which is imputed to us the moment we are born from above.
[[the sinless Righteousness which is imputed to us the moment we are born from above.]]
Thankfully it is His sinlessness that is imputed to us to make us sinless in God’s sight- and not our own efforts at sinlessness that make us worthy- otherwise we’re all sunk-
I'm curious if you ever feel the need to ask for forgiveness from the Almighty for your sins? What would be the point, right?
What if your sins directly injure another person. Does OSAS give you immunity from such liability as well?
Would you, or recommend other OSAS believers, seek the injured party's forgiveness for wrongs you or they perpetrated against them (e.g. assault, slander, crimes of a sexual nature, etc.)? Would you seek to make amends?
OSAS opens up an enormous "can of worms". It even impinges on our entire body of laws based on our original Judeo-Christian beliefs.
It's OSAS (while in the flesh) believers who need answers for some very relative questions.
See #188, please.
Is it because they become aware of just how sinful they are and are desperate to change by their own efforts? Satan plays upon that guilt of knowing we have been and remain an offense to the God we want to make amends with, that gives works based religions power and satan uses that power to deceive more and more.
Is it because they love the sin more than they value a relationship with the Eternal I AM?
Is it because they just cannot accept that they could be as destitute as the Righteousness meter shows them to be?
Is it because they see themselves truly and turn away in disbelief? ...
Thanks be to God He has made the deliverance from the old man so simple at such a great cost to Him. We could never accomplish the ledger balance on our efforts.
To try and add or even believe you must add to what only God can do is an insult to the One Who paid it all. But each of us must accept the Grace Gift individually. There is not org or institution which can stand in the court of Holy and plead a case for our efforts, our works, our deeds trying to merit what ONLY God has and only God can imputed to us.
What would be the point? Are you seriously asking such a thing? Have you never known the closeness of God so you would cheapen it with such an insult? If all your seeking is a get out of jail free card, you will be rejected by the Holy One of God, just as He referred to those who will plead ‘but Lord, did we not ... yada yada yada’, and He will respond in finality, ‘depart from me you workers of lawlessness, I never knew you.’
To the end of what???
Context is the time from the first Advent unto the second. Enduring until the end is relational to the individual doing the enduring - no matter where in between they may find themselves. Simply put, on a personal level, it means to endure until your time on Earth is finished.
#193
“Which more respectable version of that (yet false) doctrine I had referred to in contrast to the merely professional version.”
How exactly can a person who is among the “elect” ever be lost?
“Which is sadly the typical evasion of the obvious, which is that the author is not addressing unbelievers among believers, but addressing believers among believers, telling the same subjects that they were to ‘hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end’ and to ‘harden not your hearts,’ and warning them against departing from the living God. You do not depart from something you never were part of.”
I think I’ve already addressed this. The parable of the sower explains it, as I already shared and you responded to. Only those who bear fruit are those who enter Heaven. Yet there are 2 other responses to the word that have the appearance of salvation: the stony ground and the thorny ground both show some initially promising results that appear similarly to the seed that ultimately produces fruit. There were some among the Hebrews who outwardly embraced the Christian faith but were in danger of not continuing. Perhaps some were third and fourth generation believers who, like Israel in the days of Moses, were part of the external movement of God but had not fully entered into that personal relationship characteristic of a true believer.
https://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3780053/posts?page=47#47
The theologically correct answer is that these have not yet experienced saving faith. Judas had all of the outward appearance, yet God knew his heart was not right. Some of these Hebrew “Christians” had received the message of the Gospel with joy but were in danger of abandoning their initial response. Yes, it is correct that this has the appearance of someone “losing salvation”. But the distinction is that, from God’s perspective, they never were among the elect.
No one who is the “elect of God” will ever go to Hell. These are foreknown to God before the foundation of the world. They are chosen in Christ not only to believe but to go on believing. Not only to believe but to suffer for His name. Not only to believe but to bear fruit. Not only to believe but to do good works, zealously. Not only to believe but to persevere unto the end.
John 15:16 (NKJV)
You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.
Ephesians 2:10 (NKJV)
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Philippians 1:29 (NKJV)
For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake.
Matthew 24:24 (NKJV)
For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. [Note: Christ is saying it is NOT possible for the elect to follow antichrist, but that they are the only ones who have this hope of not being deceived.]
Ephesians 1:5 (NKJV)
He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.
2 Timothy 1:12 (NKJV)
For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.
1 Peter 1:2-5 (NKJV)
[To the] elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Jude 1:24-25 (NKJV)
Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling,
And to present you faultless
Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,
To God our Savior,
Who alone is wise,
Be glory and majesty,
Dominion and power,
Both now and forever.
Amen.
In practical terms, there is a very real danger of departing from God and from faith in Christ. How is this simultaneously true along with eternal security? Because eternal security only applies to the elect who do persevere. In other words, the danger is a false confidence, a false understanding of the true Gospel or a belief in a false Gospel that is almost indistinguishable from the true Gospel, a danger of thinking it is possible to follow Christ without forsaking all else, a danger of thinking Christ can be our Savior without being our Lord, a danger of trying to trust in Christ but also trusting in other things such as earthly riches or even in our own righteousness. There are many pitfalls to faith that all professing followers of Christ must regard as mortal threats.
True believers have doubts about our salvation, because when we sin we feel convicted. We know it is neither right nor normal for a follower of Christ to sin. Yet we fail. But this sense of conviction is actually a positive indicator that someone is truly a child of God. So, all followers of Christ should, rather than relying on some manmade doctrine like OSAS, examine ourselves frequently and soberly evaluate whether our lives are consistent with our professed faith. If not, what is the remedy? Obviously, trust in Jesus.
When Hebrews warns of there being no more sacrifice for sin, it is simultaneously warning that there is no salvation outside of Christ but also exhorting those who stray to return to the one and only sacrifice that can take away sin. When tempted to depart from the faith, we must have the heart that Peter had: “To whom shall we go, You have the words of eternal life.” Peter correctly identified who Jesus was, and Jesus said this revelation came from God to Peter. All of the disciples had been tempted to betray Jesus in the same way as Judas. Yet, ultimately, only Judas went that far in his sin and straying from Christ. The others forsook Him, fled, and even denied Him. But they all also returned (except Judas).
Another reason for warning professing believers of the dangers of unbelief is not merely because of the possibility of their lack of saving faith but also that they might become hardened in their unbelief. This is why Jesus began teaching in parables, and He specifically says so when He taught the parable of the sower. There were some among His listeners who had been hardened to the point where God would not permit them to understand and believe in Christ any longer.
I return to the simplicity of the answer on this subject: there are those who outwardly and from a human standpoint appear to lose their salvation. From God’s eternal viewpoint, only the elect can be saved and all of the elect will be saved. There is the possibility of knowing that we are God’s elect and even to know that others, such as our family members and friends, are God’s elect. This allows us to have confidence in our future salvation, knowing that God is going to complete the work He began in us. However, this confidence must be balanced with the realization that it is possible to be deceived about our own salvation, as well as that of others. We do not have to be deceived, but it is possible. And it is the most important matter in the world for us to be very sure we have placed our full trust in Christ for salvation according to the tests the scriptures give us.
For those who do already trust in Jesus, we are admonished to continue doing so. For those who do not, they are admonished to do so.
Hope in scripture means essentially the same thing as assurance.
Hebrews 6:17-19 (NKJV)
Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath, that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us. This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil.
“Elpidos” is used 13 times in the New Testament:
https://biblehub.com/greek/elpidos_1680.htm
It is translated as hope, but you can see from the instances at the above link that the English word does not do it justice. In English the word conveys a sense of doubtfulness, but the Greek word conveys confidence. Hebrews 6:11 specifically describes assurance as a quality or attribute of hope.
We who believe in Christ with our whole heart have an assurance of salvation based on the promises of God. It is not that we believe we can deny Christ (by words or deeds) and lay claim to a future salvation (as those who deny Christ will also be denied), but it the confidence that He will protect us, preserve us, and enable us to endure unto the end and bear fruit unto eternal life.
You are wrong. Read the chapter where you pull ‘enduring unto the end. You are insulting the Grace by adding this human effort to endure unto the end. You cannot give yourself eternal life and the Righteousness of Christ. What makes your ego believe you could hold onto it given how powerful satan is in deceiving humanity. And don’t try the double talk quip of God makes it possible when you are asserting the individuals efforts.
Yes I am. And it's OSAS believers who claim to have "a get out of jail free card", as you put it.
If you believe you are no longer capable of sinning, or none of your sins will be counted against you, what would be the point of seeking forgiveness?
Surely you've thought this minor point through? Right?
And you are trying to put words in my mouth because you can’t answer a few simple questions that basically destroys OSAS (while in the flesh) theory.
It is not a minor point. You are posing this as an insult to the Grace of God, as if you believe once HE births you into His family and seals your spirit with His Holy Spirit, you are powerful enough to discard it all. I suppose that is an inevitable twist to works based religions.
Actually He does make it possible. When I see those who deny the power of God through Christ, and the Holy Spirit, 2 Timothy 3:5 comes to mind, every single time.
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