Posted on 07/20/2018 11:27:58 AM PDT by fishtank
Yes.
There is no oath taken when it comes to spiritual or religious propositions within the craft. I am a member of a Presbyterian church. Within my lodge are Baptist, Catholics, Methodists, Mormons, Muslims, and other religious determinations. Each man should pray for wisdom and discernment from the Lord whether a Mason or not.
Where most people have trouble with the craft is that we believe in the existense of a supreme being. Webster defines a supreme being as God. So do I. So does Masonry. Not all religions have the same philosophy. There are many religions that don’t use the Bible society recognizes. The American Indian didn’t study the Bible, yet they believed in a spiritual being that had names within their languages. Can they be a Mason? Of course.
I guess you could say the Masons were religiously correct long before politics stepped in and used it for a way to separate people from each other and into categories. We don’t care what religion you are, just that it have a belief in deity.
Masons believe that there is one God and that people employ many different ways to seek, and to express what they know of God. Masonry primarily uses the appellation, “Grand Architect of the Universe,” and other non-sectarian titles, to address the Deity. In this way, persons of different faiths may join together in prayer, concentrating on God, rather than differences among themselves. Masonry believes in religious freedom and that the relationship between the individual and God is personal, private, and sacred. Without interfering in religious practice, it expects each member to follow his own faith and to place his Duty to God above all other duties. Its moral teachings are acceptable to all religions.
So the only religion not accepted as one by the craft is no religion. And excluding any religion that professes a deity is not right. We all fall under God, no matter what name is put upon the Almighty.
rwood
Neither is the NFL. That does not make them "satanic cults".
OK.
Thanks for the answer.
Due to issues of conscience, as described in Romans 14, I could not continue as a member in the masonic org I was in.
The book “Should a Christian be a Mason” was a good summary of reasons why not.
Also, the works-salvation aspect as explained in the masonic funeral ceremony was not in agreement with God’s gift of undeserved grace, which was yet another reason to quit.
The NFL doesn’t make a proclamation about believing in the Grand designer of the universe.
Ask your fellow Muslim member of Allah is the same as Jehovah.
If he is honest you will quickly discover the two are not the same.
There is only one God...and that is the God revealed in the Bible.
“.....the God revealed in the Bible.”
And that depends on which Bible you use of which you were taught from.
Listed below are the most common English versions of the Bible used throughout the world.
King James Version (KJV)
New International Version (NIV)
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
New King James Version (NKJV)
English Standard Version (ESV)
New Living Translation (NLT)
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
New Century Version (NCV)
What is The Voice translation of the Bible?
New English Bible (NEB)
American Standard Version (ASV)
Good News Bible (GNB) / Today’s English Version (TEV)
Amplified Bible (AMP)
Today’s New International Version (TNIV)
New English Translation (NET)
Lexham English Bible (LEB)?
Revised Standard Version (RSV)
Contemporary English Version (CEV)
God’s Word Translation (GW)
Common English Bible (CEB)
What is the Recovery Version of the Bible?
New International Readers Version (NIrV)
Easy-To-Read Version (ERV)
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
Bible in Basic English (BBE)
21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
What is the Modern King James Version (MKJV)?
What is the Modern English Version (MEV)?
World English Bible (WEB)
Revised English Bible (REB)
Jerusalem Bible (JB)
New American Bible (NAB)
The Living Bible (TLB)
The Message (MSG)
Young’s Literal Translation (YLT)
Wycliffe Bible
Tyndale Bible
Coverdale Bible
Matthew Bible
Great Bible
The Bishops’ Bible
Douay-Rheims Version (DRV)
What is the Luther Bible?
Geneva Bible
These are just the English Bibles. The Muslims have the Koran, Hindus have the Vedas, Buddists have the Tripitaka (Pali Canon), Mahayana Sutras and the Tibetan Book of the Dead are their three major noncanonical Buddhist texts. The Jewish have the Tanakh and Judaism is the tenth largest religion in the world. The list of religions in the world is endless. And probably most all have a written text of some type to assist them in their practice. So to say any one religion is right and others are all wrong is questioning what God, anyone’s, has provided. And all over the world each lodge has the book on the alter, or books, that most represents the religion of the Brothers of the lodge.
Masonry does not questionGod. We accept any religion into the craft that is recognized as a religion. And in my Grand Lodge’s jurisdiction, we are all children of God and any bible can be on our alter. In one of the lodges I profess to, we have 4 Bibles on the alter that someone in the lodge practices. And to not create a problem, the only need of the lodge is that the lodge prays to God, and not Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, or any representative of their particular religion.
Masonry is always looking for good men. A Good Man is not necessarily a Godly Man, but a Godly Man is absolutely a Good Man. And we don’t care where his religion comes from, we accept his faith because we have faith in him also. And we don’t force Brothers to profess one religion. We offer them the opportunity to profess where God sends them.
rwood
The Islamic terrorists who crashed their planes into the WTC, Pentagon and almost the White House or Capital were "godly men" per Islamic standards.
You want to stick with your statement?
And we don’t care where his religion comes from, we accept his faith because we have faith in him also. And we don’t force Brothers to profess one religion. We offer them the opportunity to profess where God sends them.
You throw around the use of God as if Allah is Jehovah and vice versa.
Ask your Muslim "brothers", if there are any in your organization, if that is the case.
All of our English, Spanish, French, etc translations come from the Hebrew and Greek. There are some differences in some words. While I have not read all of these the message is overall the same.
“The Islamic terrorists who crashed their planes into the WTC, Pentagon and almost the White House or Capital were “godly men” per Islamic standards.”
No, they weren’t. They were bad people hiding behind the name and misusing the religion’s history. In the Christian Bible we have many quotations concerning war. Here are a few:
Ecclesiastes 3:8 “A time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.”
Matthew 24:6 “And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.”
Jeremiah 51:20 “You are my hammer and weapon of war: with you I break nations in pieces; with you I destroy kingdoms.”
Deuteronomy 20:1 “When you go out to war against your enemies, and see horses and chariots and an army larger than your own, you shall not be afraid of them, for the Lord your God is with you, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt.”
Proverbs 24:6 “for by wise guidance you can wage your war, and in abundance of counselors there is victory.”
We, as Christians, still wage wars. So do they. Are we any less wrong for it than they are? I do not agree with war as it should be settled by intelligence rather than force. Wish it was. But Christians have just as much, if not more, in out history as Muslims do with the practice of war. We have learned better in most cases. But not all.
And yes, I have a few Muslims in my lodge and the Koran is on the alter. So is the Jewish, Christian, Catholic, and other Bibles. Are they all wrong because we should only consider our religion right? That’s the main principle for the creation of this land and our Constitution. And it is also the reason so many have died defending all the people’s rights.
rwood
No, they weren’t. They were bad people hiding behind the name and misusing the religion’s history.
You need to study how Islam came into being and how it grew....by the power of the sword.
Christianity advanced through the spread of the Gospel.
In the Christian Bible we have many quotations concerning war. Here are a few:
There's a difference in commenting on war and telling your people they have to commit war.
In Islam, jihad or holy war, is the only way a Muslim can know for sure if they've gained what they call Heaven. Islam's history confirms this.
If you carefully study the OT the instructions to the Israelis in their conquest of the Promised Land were limited to just those areas.
No where in the NT are believers ever commanded to go and fight. You will find that in the Koran however.
But Christians have just as much, if not more, in out history as Muslims do with the practice of war. We have learned better in most cases. But not all.
Respectfully disagree. Muslims are commanded to fight for Allah.
If you study the revelations given to Muhammad you will find the more aggressive ones were given toward the end of his life. The Koran is not arranged chronologically. But if it were the reader would see this. Ask your Muslim friend to repudiate this statement in the Koran.
9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
And yes, I have a few Muslims in my lodge and the Koran is on the alter. So is the Jewish, Christian, Catholic, and other Bibles.
If you have an alter with the Koran on it I'd leave right now.
Are they all wrong because we should only consider our religion right? That’s the main principle for the creation of this land and our Constitution. And it is also the reason so many have died defending all the people’s rights.
If you recall US history Islam played no part in the founding of this country.
We fought the Barbary Pirates very early in our history. Our first war on foreign shores. We fought them twice.
If Islam had its way there would not be US Constitution. We would have Sharia Law instead.
Isn’t it wonderful that you can live in a country where you have the religious freedom to choose your worship as you please? Would I choose Islam, no. But you are trying to blame the religion for the failure of its representatives.
From your wording, I feel you very much dislike the Muslim religion of Islam. Islam started, according to the Koran, in the 7th century, approximately 600 years after the founding of Christianity. And yes they did their fair share of wars, maybe more. But the Christians were not totally free of this.
“Christianity advanced through the spread of the Gospel.”
And in conjunction with violence. An example of this would be The European wars of religion that were a series of religious wars waged in Europe in the 16th and 17th century, devastating the continent and killing over 10 million people. The wars were fought in the aftermath of the Protestant Reformation (1517), which disrupted the religious order in the Catholic countries of Europe. However, the wars were not fought only because of religion, and they included revolts against centralized authority, territorial ambitions, and Great Power conflicts. By the end of the Thirty Years’ War, Catholic France was allied with the Protestants against the Catholic Habsburg monarchy. The wars were largely ended by the Peace of Westphalia (1648). And there are many more examples I could bring up. But it would get redundent.
But, does this sound familiar? The trying to control real estate has always been a part of the human race and taking it by force for their need is not above anyone in history. Look at WW II. The Japanese and the Germans were interesting in expansion for their livelihood, so they attacked their neighbors. They hit us in 1941 in Hawaii, and we actually fired the first shot in that one sinking a Japanese sub in our harbor right before the air assault.
The only real difference of opinion we have is that I feel you are blaming the wrong topic. Christians had their share of “religious” wars like the one, only, display I did give you. There are many more. The only problematic difference between Christianity and Islam is that too many purveyors of Islam haven’t accepted that peace is a better way. And in history. Muhammad and the Pope were both the generals of each of their armies. So you are blaming the gun for the wrong it was used for.
It isn’t the religion, it’s the people that use it for their personal gain. It is just unfortunate the world’s society hasn’t caught up as a unit. We still have riots in the US when teams win sporting events. Are you going to blame the teams? And we know it is unlawful and it is damaging, and that it is going to happen. It’s just people. Hopefully we will all get smarter. But it appears it’s going to take a while.
Right now, there are about 3.45 million Muslims of all ages in the U.S., or about 1.1% of the U.S. population. This is based on an analysis of census statistics and data from a 2017. But according to the CATO Institute, history displays that the likelihood of being killed by any refugee from any country is just 1 in 3.64 billion a year. So, how many militants do we have over here? If it was the numbers based on the census, we’d already be in flames. Why aren’t we? We watch and we stop in advance.
And it isn’t all Islamic terrorists. According to the Huffpost, looking at both plots and attacks carried out, the group tracked 201 terrorist incidents on U.S. soil from January 2008 to the end of 2016. The database shows 115 cases by white supremacists compared to 63 cases by Islamist extremists.
It’s just the people, not the religion. And anything can be misinterpreted and used. And the Craft recognizes this as Islam has a diety just like Christianity does. Maybe we are ahead of society a little. And if you think we are pacifist, you better realize that Hitler had over 50K Masons murdered during WW II because he thought we supported the Jewish race. We will fight, but not until it is a fight and not a misunderstanding or misinterpretation. And many in my lodge, and in many lodges, are retired military. And prior to the early 60’s, we had a huge history with the military. Makes good reading if you can find it.
rwood
Yes it is. Try that in Afghanistan, Pakistan or any other Islamic dominated country.
Attempt to denounce Muhammed or Islam over there and see what happens.
Tell your Islamic members Muhammad was a pedophile in that he had sex with a nine year old he married. Don't believe me? Research it for yourself.
That is what Islam allows.
Would I choose Islam, no. But you are trying to blame the religion for the failure of its representatives.
No. I am blaming the teachings of Islam for the behavior of their representatives.
You might want to review youtube videos of how the Muslims were celebrating over 9/11.
From your wording, I feel you very much dislike the Muslim religion of Islam. Islam started, according to the Koran, in the 7th century, approximately 600 years after the founding of Christianity. And yes they did their fair share of wars, maybe more. But the Christians were not totally free of this.
One of the differences between Islam and Christianity is the concept of Jihad. It's a part of Islam to subdue your enemies.
That is not a part of Christianity.
You really need to do some research on the history of what happens to a country when Islam takes over.
You can continue to believe the Muslims in your group are peaceful. I hope they remain that way.
But if they ever gain superiority in numbers there will only be one book on your Mason altar....the Koran.
“Try that in Afghanistan, Pakistan or any other Islamic dominated country.”
And that’s a point I would like you to ponder. We don’t live in those countries. And we wouldn’t like them to tell us what is wrong or right, so we shouldn’t either until it gets out of hand. But we do have lodges in those countries and many others. And in some, the prevailing book on the alter is the Koran. It is not my position to determine anyone with a religion that includes a deity that hasn’t learned to control their actions to stay within the world’s society expectations concerning how to run their lives. We did that when we started chasing the British out in 1776.
Furthermore, I don’t tell Catholics how to worship anymore than I tell Jewish or Polish or any other people what’s right or wrong on my say so. And if the US determines that Islam qualifies to be a religion acceptable within our borders, then at this point you could be in the minority of your belief that they aren’t. And I won’t tell you that you are wrong either. Just that if you feel that is an incorrect determination, get together with other like thinking people and get the determination changed. That’s how a democracy works. And it’s not mob rule.
But the Bible recognizes that and displays when it is to show we are as guilty as others to step into violence and out of worship:
Genesis 1:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Psalm 81:13-14
13 “Oh, that My people would listen to Me,
That Israel would walk in My ways!
14 I would soon subdue their enemies,
And turn My hand against their adversaries.
Man sins within all of them. But don’t blame all for the actions of a few. You probably don’t have the knowledge or the power to make that decision. Only God can do that. No matter whose it is or which one exists. I only know mine. It’s the same as saying there is no intelligent life in outer space. How can the person saying that consider it when there are millions of planets out there that could sustain life? And that is really arrogant to think that God put life on this little spec only. We can’t stay out of each others way. Surely it is better somewhere.
rwood
Per Islam, those involved in fighting the enemies of Allah, that's you, me and everyone else not Muslim, are not committing sin. It's the opposite....those not fighting the enemies of Allah are the apostates.
You seriously need to study the history of Islam and what happens in a country to the people when Islam takes over.
“You seriously need to study the history of Islam and what happens in a country to the people when Islam takes over.”
You have mentioned this a number of times since we started conversing. I probably have forgotten more about current islamic info than you can find on a questionable google and whatever the lying media throws at you. I’m probably not going to please you with this entry, but I am going to tell you the truth.
I entered the military in the army in 1967 and was in south east Asia shortly afterwards. I was hit near Laos and was forced to an MEB and retired. I came back in in 1975 in the air force and started training personnel on NBC. This went on, with additions to my training topics, into the early/middle nineties when I was hit again in the middle east. This MEB retired me permanent in 1995 with over 20 years. So, a full retirement
I got a call in 2000 to go back to work for the army on the civilian side of the house teaching NBC and terrorist tactics for the army, NAF, as the civilian equivalent of a 35L MOS. Later I was taken into federal all branch training of the same by the pentagon, civil service/Dod, and spent the last 7 years training multi branch and elected to a board to determine training. I have some expertise.
But here’s where the problem exists between you and I: you are talking moralities and I am talking legalities. I agree with you that it is a problem. The acceptance of islam as a religion is not my decision. That was done by “our” elected officials. And neither you nor I have a say in it as we are expected to accept their decision by law.
I’m sure you know what a shyster does. He takes you into confidence and then uses you to accomplish a goal. This is what is happening. The unfortunate thing about the islamic religion is that a vast majority of it’s practitioners do not understand how it works for the few.
The five largest followed religions in the world, as displayed by the World Atlas, are first Christianity at 2.22B, then Islam at 1.65B, Hinduism at 1.05B, Buddhism at 488M, and Shintoism at 104M. Did you notice a pattern here? The three of the top five are from the middle east. And they evolved the same in many ways, war and a need for domination being one of them.
The only difference between the religions is that some have evolved into a peaceful organization and others have not. Of the top five group, the two still based in the middle east did not evolve. So they are still going at it with few actually gaining ground on being civilized.
But I have no more to say about how they run their lives than I expect from them about mine. And as long as they fall under the criteria of a religion as determined by this country, they will be offered the opportunity to become a Mason. If that actual Mason promotes violence against this country or it’s citizens, and it is proven, he will be thrown out of the Craft and probably arrested.
But until that happens, in this country you, as an individual, are innocent until proven guilty. So they cannot be legally forced to resign or be disbarred. And they are welcome if they stay within the parameters of the law just like any other sub-group.
And it is, also, a problem that most islamists don’t know they are adding to the problem of expansion. And our way of government is ripe for the pickings and is no longer protected by location. But I, like any other citizen, am expected to follow the laws of out country. If you have a complaint about the determination of the intent of a group, then talk to your city’s mayor, your senator or representative, talk to your God and ask for direction. But Masons follow the law since the revolutionary war, And we won’t change that any different than you can as we would become the “secret organization” the media is claiming.
Besides, I am willing to bet,. because of our laws, you’ll find islamists in the kiwanis, moose, elks, and in state and federal jobs from the bottom of the pay grade to the president. There was a question about Obama and his choice, remember. Masons are no different than anyone else. And just as legal.
I thank you for the conversation, I hope you get accomplished on this that you want. I won’t help or hurt your efforts. Good luck and goodbye.
rwood
The only difference between the religions is that some have evolved into a peaceful organization and others have not. Of the top five group, the two still based in the middle east did not evolve. So they are still going at it with few actually gaining ground on being civilized.
It appears we have a different view of history and understanding of the different religions. There are major differences between them.
However, as noted....we are free, at least for now, in this country to believe what you want.
I hope that day continues. However, I will leave you with this.
If Islam gains the ascendency the days of being free to choose what you want are over. Europe is starting to experience that.
Again, I thank you for your service to our country.
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