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To: ADSUM

“Well, but the Catholic idea of “faith and works” puts that separation between the two, making them distinct things.”
One can claim to have faith and not act on it. Just a statement.

But the expression Catholics use is “faith and works,” and there’s a difference in meaning between having something and claiming to have it. “Faith” and “claiming to have faith” aren’t the same thing, and the Catholic belief is “faith and works,” not “a claim of having faith and works.” When Catholics say people are saved by faith and works, they mean genuine faith, right, now just a claim of faith? So again, it’s Catholics making faith and works distinct things. What Protestants mean by faith is also genuine faith, not merely a claim, and in turn genuine faith of course can only mean in God’s eyes. He’s the sole judge as He’s the only one who knows perfectly and completely what’s in everyone’s hearts. As you said, God will see the difference.

“Faith is accepting God’s love and works is returning that love to God and neighbor by keeping God’s commandments.”

But again, those are works done in faith and from faith, not outside of it. As you said, FAITH lived out, which, as James says, is what faith truly means. Genuine faith has to produce good fruit.

“So if we are in agreement, why the “faith alone” concept?”

Well, let me turn that around to ask again, why does the Catholic Church make faith and works distinct things, as though the works are separate from faith, when the works are done out of faith and by faith, if they’re works that please God. God’s Word clearly teaches that we are saved by faith alone, but that if we really have that saving faith, it will produce good fruit and we’ll see it making us mindful to please God and to care about what He cares about, which often also means having to turn from our human will and accepting His for us.


134 posted on 06/08/2018 12:41:01 PM PDT by Faith Presses On (Above all, politics should serve the Great Commission, "preparing the way for the Lord.")
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To: Faith Presses On

Full Question
Are we justified by faith or works or both?
Answer

It depends on what stage of justification we’re talking about. If the initial stage of justification is in question, then our good works have no part to play. As the Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion (2010; emphasis in original).

However, if the question refers to the ongoing (Rom. 3:23-24, 5:8-9) and final stages of justification (Rom. 6:16, Gal. 2:16), then works do play a part. This is how St. Paul understands the placement of works:

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God—not because of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them (Eph. 2:8-10).

Notice that Paul excludes works only with regard to that initial stage of salvation/justification. After we’re initially justified, then we must carry out the good works that God wills for us.

St. James teaches the same with regard to the corporal works of mercy:

You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

We also know that works pertain to our final justification, since Jesus teaches in Matthew 25:31-46 that the determining factor for those who go to heaven or hell are those who did and did not do the corporal works of mercy.

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/is-salvation-an-act-or-a-process


250 posted on 06/09/2018 4:06:27 AM PDT by ADSUM
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