Posted on 06/08/2018 8:54:57 AM PDT by Salvation
your comment: “You don’t receive any grace from being baptized...”
Just your personal opinion. Perhaps you should be open to the Truth of Christ and His Catholic Church.
Full Question
Do Catholics receive Grace through the sacraments?
Answer
Yes, as the Baltimore Catechism explains:
Q. 574. What is a Sacrament?
A. A Sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace.
https://www.catholic.com/qa/do-catholics-receive-grace-through-the-sacraments
Few truths are so clearly taught in the New Testament as the doctrine that in baptism God gives us grace. Again and again the sacred writers tell us that it is in baptism that we are saved, buried with Christ, incorporated into his body, washed of our sins, regenerated, cleansed, and so on (see Acts 2:38, 22:16; Rom. 6:1–4; 1 Cor. 6:11, 12:13; Gal. 3:26–27; Eph. 5:25-27; Col. 2:11–12; Titus 3:5; 1 Pet. 3:18–22). They are unanimous in speaking of baptism in invariably efficient terms, as really bringing about a spiritual effect.
https://www.catholic.com/tract/baptismal-grace
Christ’s instructions to the Apostles and successors:
He said to them, “Go into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to every creature. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned. Mark
It may be the first word and very important, but it is not the only word.
Acts 16:33 He took them in at that hour of the night and bathed their wounds; then he and all his family were baptized at once.
Yes, it is the parents responsibility to teach the Truth of Jesus Christ to their children so that they too many believe.
Perhaps with an open mind you will seek the Truth.
Peter [said] to them, “Repent and be baptized,* every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit.u 39For the promise is made to you and to your children and to all those far off, whomever the Lord our God will call.”v 40He testified with many other arguments, and was exhorting them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”w 41Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand persons were added that day.x Acts 2
I thought so too.
I was surprised to see some of the things that were mentioned and supported by their version of the Bible.
Of course they do because they deny that faith by itself is not enough to save.
Anything you add to the finished work of Christ on the cross is what you are depending on for your salvation. Otherwise, you would acknowledge that the finished work of Christ on the cross was enough.
So if you say *faith plus works, you're trusting the works cause faith isn't enough on its own.
If you say *faith plus baptism*, then it's the baptism you are trusting.
If you say *faith plus anything* then it's the anything else that you are trusting because in any case the faith alone isn't enough even in light of what Jesus says here.
John 3:3-8 Jesus answered him,“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
How does one believe?
They listen to preaching, read the Bible or other books or they can seek the Truth or be inspired by God. Very few are struck down by Jesus like St Paul. And perhaps there more ways to learn to believe.
Believing is a process and we grow in our belief and love of God.
For children, including infants, it is the parent’s responsibility to teach their children about God and they too can grow in their belief in God. Or they can reject a belief in God. Baptism forgives sins and provides God’s grace. For infants, they do not have personal sins, yet they receive forgiveness of original sin passed down from Adam.
Are their false beliefs, false interpretations and false preachers? Yes.
So you don’t have anything from the Scripture that y’all claim your church gave us to teach about grace?
Why should we care what the opinion pieces of Catholic theologians have to say?
Is that Truth, on par with God breathed, Holy spirit inspired Scripture?
While that is true, it still does not teach infant baptism nor does it state that the baptism erases original sin and save the person.
From reading your posts, I do not believe that you fully understand the teachings of Jesus and His Catholic Church. I believe that you and many posters misrepresent the teachings of Jesus and His Catholic Church.
I realize that many were brought up and taught protestant beliefs. While some beliefs are positive and beneficial, yet some are not. I do believe that the Catholic Church is the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH founded by Jesus Christ.
While the Catholic Church has made errors and like any organization, has problems and sinners as members, I do believe that the Church has not erred in matters of faith and will be protected by God until the end time. Yes, some members promote false teachings and many have left to form new churches or to join other churches.
God has many mysteries that we do not understand, but I have faith in God and His Church even if I do not fully understand.
I noticed you never can provide chapter and verse that stat s your claims.
No where do you find grace being distributed via sacraments.
*If you claim it is, please skip all the double-talk and provide it.*
But of course you cannot.
Also, you never provided a verse stating that children should be baptized.
“And did not Christ tell the Holy Spirit to inspire the writers to pen the revelation of Scripture, which manifests that as written,”
Uh...NO!
Show me the Gospel quote.
I shouldn’t reply to your false comment.
Do you only read something that supports your false beliefs and ignore the actual posting?
In case you don’t understand, household includes children and infants and was the practice of the Catholic Church from the beginning. Can you cite any requirement that only adults can be baptized?
Perhaps you would like to read:
https://www.catholic.com/tract/infant-baptism
Jesus told us to be like little children in order to join Him in Heaven. Perhaps you should look that up and understand it.
Duly noted that you want to make it bout me. I asked a simple question and it triggered your pro roman side.
Must defend Rome against Sola scriptura!
Can’t have a roman ox gored with Sola Scriptura!
Yeah, I would want to change the subject to a messenger too, if that was the kind of hyporcricy I was exhibiting, too..
Its not strange because it is not the first time a protester of Rome has been to quick to come to rome’s defense.
This is a false argument from silence.
There are no infants being baptized in the New Testament.
I hear the crying of your imaginary infants going under, but they are imaginary infants that the Scriptures never confirms nor identifies.
As to it being the practice from the beginning of the Catholic Church, this should be easy to prove.
Provide all the evidence you have that infants were baptized by Apostles, or that Apostles taught this - BEFORE 100 AD.
It isn't there.
What is true is that much later in history, paganism was combined with Christianity to form the Catholic church.
Can you cite any requirement that only adults can be baptized?
Ah, yes. We've reached the imaginary point of argument.
Can you cite any requirement that only _______ can be_________?
This is progress because it is a tacit admission that you have no actual facts, evidence or logic to support this truth claim.
NOTE: you have failed via Scripture to support your truth claim, despite being asked more than once.
Now, on to "grace being imparted by sacraments"....
Chapter and verse please.
May you seek the Truth, and not your version.
Peace be with you.
Then you’ve never seen the parts of Rome false teachings and doctrines, those shared with her Protestant daughters, get questioned with Scripture.
It’s an exercise where protesters of Rome change back to daughters of Rome, and quickly come to the aid of the mother church.
Interesting. Regarding the faith vs works confusion, I didn’t read that part the same way you did.
What I read instead is that one’s faith is revealed, not by their words, but by their actions, their works.
I think this is the reason Jesus tests us or perhaps why He lets Satan have his way with us from time to time.
It’s to see if we’ve learned His lessons, to see if we mean what we say or if we’re just being hypocrites and con artists with Him and with ourselves.
With faith, words and works, I figure it’s like what Alfred Adler said:
“Trust only movement.Whatever we might say, our truth is generally what we do. People say lots of things, but we do what we believe.
Life happens at the level of events, not of words.
Trust movement.”
Our works reveals the truth about our beliefs and our faith much more clearly than anything we say.
No judgments. We are all works in progress, each of us on the Potter’s wheel.
We are each right about a lot of things, but each of us is wrong about something, if not many things, too.
Honestly, where’s the pride in that?
The only way we’ll ever be 100% correct is to come together and combine what we know in the spirit of unity.
But, that’s not the spirit that possess us, especially not in conversations like these. Nope, It’s the “we’re right/they’re wrong” spirit having sport with us, instead.
We all can see that the House Jesus built and paid for with His Blood is a house divided.
But what we don’t see is that we, ourselves, are the ones who are doing the dividing, in spite of all we know, or because of what we think we know.
I suspect He’ll be along soon to correct us.
And there is the place of of leadership to settle disputes:
It belongs to synods and councils, ministerially to determine controversies of faith, and cases of conscience; to set down rules and directions for the better ordering of the public worship of God, and government of his Church; to receive complaints in cases of maladministration, and authoritatively to determine the same... - Westminster Confession, Cp. VI:
But if you start calling him "unchristian" or "heretic" you are no different from the most hidebound medieval Pope.
Which depends upon how Catholics interpret their own church, while they attack Bible Christians for interpreting Scripture, which Caths can also do in variance. Ever read some of the notes in the NAB ?
Paul, in Romans, is addressing the demands of the Judaizers that the Gentiles must be circumcised and obey the Mosaic Law. He is not pitting works against faith. If you are to believe in the entirety of Scripture then believe what Paul says here. Everything that he writes in Romans after this is an explanation of this.
Paul is speaking of the works of the law in order to reject any system of salvation on the basis of attaining to a standard of obedience by which one may be saved,
for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. (Galatians 3:21)
If there could be a system of salvation by works then the law would be it, and thus Paul is not restricting the exclusion of works salvation to being that of under the law, but of any system of attaining to a standard of obedience by which one may be saved.
Asserting that by cooperation with God's grace via the church then one may attain to this standard and be actually become good enough as to enter Heaven, as Rome teaches, is still teaching salvation by works.
See post 477 here.
Or solo with sufficiency referring to both the formal and material sense. The latter provides for oral teaching, but the veracity of such is subject to testing by the the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed.
And unless pope and councils presume they speak as wholly inspired of God, which they do not, then their words cannot be equal with Scripture.
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