Posted on 03/21/2018 7:22:40 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Yes, absolutely.
Or as we say in my circles, the saved person endeavors to live their life pleasing to the Lord out of gratitude for their salvation (not to ‘earn’ it).
Off topic a little, but it seems to me that is the Holy Spirit is truly in the individual (a result of being saved), they will naturally desire to live for the Lord. I know there is disagreement on this, but Scripture says by their fruits ye shall know them.
Is your post a multiple choice? Grace ALONE, Faith ALONE, or Scripture ALONE. Seems like the choice of one excludes the other.
I do agree with you that the author misses the mark. While evangelicals might believe that Once saved, Always saved precludes the need to live the Christian life, I am confident most evangelicals try to live out their faith.
I disagree that grace and works must be kept separate in the New Covenant. John Calvin believed that while we are saved by grace alone, there would be a judgment on the White Throne to reward those save of the good works they had done. Secondly I believe most evangelicals would agree that after being saved their lives should reflect that faith by prayer, leading holy lives, and good works as well.
Well, I’d find some fault in that, too.
That commission was given to the apostles and ministers (the sent), not to the people. They were to teach the gospel and baptize.
The divine call to the laity is to Faith (alone); belief in the humiliation and death of Christ for our (my) sins and that He raised His corporal body from the dead three days later. That Faith is thereby accredited to us (me) as righteousness before God.
Luther would provide that the individual XPian (laity) that “goes”, “teaches” and “baptizes” would be found in the Law performing “works righteousness”.
This would be the error of the Schwenkfeldians, who today are known as Modern American Evangelicals (like Billy Graham).
Yep, you are correct. We need to each deal with the Christian nature of our own lives and that of our fellow congregation and let God deal with the "state of the church". We are called on to evangelize the good news, God will take care of the rest. There will always be exactly as many saved Christians in the pews as God wants there to be at that point in time. Not one more or less. Paul instructed Timothy to preach the Gospel "in season and out of season". So, he knew there would be times when the Gospel would be "out of season". There have been many such seasons over the years and we know at the end there will be a great falling away. But until then we just walk the walk, talk the talk and instead of trying to save the world, just try to save your own neighborhood. If everyone only focused on that then the rest would take care of itself.
The divine commission was given to all. The New Testament makes no difference between laity as you call it and apostles. In fact Paul says that we are all a royal priesthood. We are called as believers to preach the gospel at all times and in all places. Sometimes we even need to use words to accomplish that.
Absolutely correct!
.
You need to re-read the account. Who was His audience...to whom was He speaking?
And, of course, you are using the modern definition of “royal priesthood”. Stay away from those enthusiasts and schwarmerei heretics like Jesus First.
If good people had learned to say "NO" to evil the evil of the Holocaust would never have happened... and that's just one example. God will deal with the state of the Church... you're right circlecity... Our job is to deal with the 'state of our own souls'...
“Escapism Theology implies that humanity isn’t staying here so go ahead and pollute the atmosphere, pour oil and dump plastic into the oceans, cut down the rainforests, bring other forms of life to extinction, because this isn’t our long term home “we’re just passing through.”
“13 These all died in faith without having received the promises, but they saw them from a distance, greeted them, and confessed that they were foreigners and temporary residents on the earth. 14 Now those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15 If they were thinking about where they came from, they would have had an opportunity to return. 16 But they now desire a better place—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.” - Hebrews 11
40+ years a baptist, and I’ve NEVER heard ANYONE say what he claims we say!
James 1:.
[21] Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
[22] But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only [23] For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
[24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
[25] But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
James 2:
[17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
[19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[22] Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
[23] And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness [24] Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[25] Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
[26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also
Works done out of belief and obedience are the essence of faith, and thus righteousness.
We do not all have the same gifts, but we all must do the works of righteousness that are the essence of saving faith.
Good works are a symptom of Salvation.
When Jesus left the Earth, he commanded those around him to do things on Earth. He didn’t tell them to wait for Heaven.
One of the major reasons “Christians” quit going to church is because the “Christian” has either created God in his own image (an image not matched by any church) Or the “Christian” is unable to practice grace themselves.
I think we are in agreement.
What i meant by that is that salvation is by grace alone, as written in Ephesians 2:8-9. Works are rewarded, as you have said.
I was suggesting that a saved person will desire to live a life pleasing to the Lord (with the Holy Spirit indwelling in them that desire becomes natural), as opposed to -for example - grudgingly doing good works because they ‘should’.
It seems to me we agree. Or at least for the most part.
” I relate with Jesus on my own. Just Him and me, and that’s the way it will be.”
If Jesus told you that you were wrong, would you find another Jesus? The problem with worshiping alone is that you can’t recognize problems in our faith. There is no one to challenge you.
Churches are full of bad people so we all can fit right in. You can tell me that all churches are evil when you have been a member of every one of them.
I have no contact with any heretics I am a 55-year-old lifelong Christian and you disagree with my reading I disagree with yours I suppose that’s what makes the world go around. But I do think all of us will be asked by Christ what we did to further his kingdom not just the clergy
“Good works are a symptom of Salvation.”
True. But I would add that unsaved people do works that can be considered ‘good’ as from time to time as well.
The difference, I think, is motivation and who gets the glory.
At any rate, I know what you mean and I know you are right.
Those works that we do are a result of our salvation not a part of our salvation. We have had this argument many times in the past. We can add nothing to the finished work of Christ on the cross for our salvation. That is accomplished by Christ’s work alone, good works that we do come after and in response to our salvation. Period
“Good” may not be secular. Things like Christian retreats, teaching Bible studies, worshiping, etc are all works that point toward Salvation.
A Christian and an Atheist should have different goals when helping the poor, etc. Supporting Medicaid Expansion is not a work pointing towards Salvation even though many of the my liberal friends think it is.
I’m not concerned with churches anymore, Appy. If I was the last person on earth, would Jesus tell me I’m wrong? Churches are about power, money and control. Last time I went to church, the pastor tried to tongue kiss me. Last overtly religious person I met is a child predator and a total fraud.
I’ve had enough, not even remotely impressed anymore.
You miss the point. The church isn’t there for you. You are there for the church.
You can only say “Churches are about power, money and control” if you have been to every one of them. And you haven’t.
Listen to this guy and tell me they are all the same
https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1160611040
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