Posted on 03/14/2018 5:02:35 PM PDT by ebb tide
Not only forgiven but removed as far as the east is from the west. What a beautiful promise.
Yes! If they were forgiven to this extent in the OT, why would anyone think they would be forgiven any less in the NT in light of the cross?
5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
6just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7“BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED.
8“BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT.”
Romans 4:5-8 NASB
And Romans 8:1 (if my memory serves) there is then NO condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
“Christ committed adultery first of all with the women at the well about whom St. John tell’s us. Was not everybody about Him saying: ‘Whatever has He been doing with her?’ Secondly, with Mary Magdalen, and thirdly with the women taken in adultery whom He dismissed so lightly. Thus even, Christ who was so righteous, must have been guilty of fornication before He died.”
***
Have a bonus. No more treats until you actually can prove that you’ve read what I’ve written instead of whining ‘I reject it.’
Cherry-picked bullshit coming from the same bullshit artist as the first one.
Here’s the Bible verse that Luther is referring to. “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”
So of course that makes sense, by taking the adultery of the women onto himself and to the cross, he was punished for that sin of adultery.
Oh, and lest we forget, this quote was from the volumes of Table Talk, which are little more than scribbled notes of Luther’s students and have no context whatsoever.
Considering all the other places where Luther praises the holy sinless Son of God, your source is full of crap.
Heck, you’re not even using Luther’s theological works to justify your hatred. You’re using hearsay.
And just because the next one is so, so easy...
“It does not matter how Christ behaved – what He taught is all that matters”
Not only is this quote never found in Luther’s works but only in Erlangen and Wiener (neither of whom can possibly be considered unbiased sources, especially considering their rampant cherry-picking, misquotes, and outright stated goals of bashing Dr. Luther).
In context, they’re probably referring to Dr. Luther’s reply to Dr. Karlstadt, in which Karlstadt was arguing that the Sacrament of Holy Communion should not be honored because Christ never honored it in the way that the Catholics do.
And Luther says, paraphrased, ‘Did Christ forbid the elevation of the Sacrament? No? Then pay attention to what Jesus teaches.’
The irony for this part is that you’re hating Dr. Luther for defending a Roman Catholic position.
And Romans 8:1 (if my memory serves) there is then NO condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
***
It’s true!
Praise God!
The quote does appears outrageous, but there are some thing to note. First, the quote has no context. One does not know what exactly Luther had in mind. Was he kidding? Was he summarizing someone else's argument? Was he using hyperbole? It's really hard to say. If taken literally, it certainly is at odds with his other statements about Christ. Therefore, even though one can't know exactly why he said this, we can have a strong assurance he didn't mean it literally. The editors of Luther's Works include a footnote for this comment of Luther's, and they offer the following speculation:
This entry has been cited against Luther, among others by Arnold Lunn in The Revolt Against Reason (New York: Sheed and Ward, 1951), pp. 45, 257, 258. What Luther meant might have been made clearer if John Schlaginhaufen had indicated the context of the Reformer’s remarks. The probable context is suggested in a sermon of 1536 (WA 41, 647) in which Luther asserted that Christ was reproached by the world as a glutton, a winebibber, and even an adulterer. (LW 54:154, fn. 100)
If you run across a Roman Catholic citing these words against Luther (or any obscure comments from Luther's Table Talk) I commend to you also these words by Roman Catholic Scholar Thomas O’Meara:
“…Catholics are using inaccurately rhetorical arguments when they make the value of Luther’s theology and reform depend upon his table-talk language. Rhetoric appeals to the mind- but it appeals through emotions. It reaches the mind not through a purely intellectual act, examining the case thoroughly and logically, but by leaps and bounds, driven by emotions and will, faculties incapable of a calm judgment of what is true” [Thomas O’Meara, Mary in Protestant and Catholic Theology, (New York: Sheed and Ward, 1966), 5].
I always caution Roman Catholics to be careful with Luther’s Table Talk. The Table Talk is a collection of comments from Luther written down by Luther’s students and friends. Thus, it is not in actuality an official writing of Luther's and should not serve as the basis for interpreting his theology. Even anti-Luther Catholic historian Hartmann Grisar has pointed out, “Of course, it must not be overlooked that the Table Talks are ephemeral—‘children of the moment.’ While they correctly and vividly reproduce the ideas of the speaker, minus the cool reflection which prevails in the writing of letters and still more of books, they contain frequent exaggerations and betray a lack of moderation. The lightning-like flashes which they emit are not always true. The momentary exaggerations of the speaker at times beget contradictions which conflict with other talks or literary utterances. Frequently humorous statements were received as serious declarations. Humor and satire of a very pungent kind play a great part in these talks” [Hartmann Grisar, Martin Luther: His Life and Work (Maryland: Newman Press, 1950), 481].http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2005/12/luther-said-christ-committed-adultery.html
Your vain attempt to slander Luther by relying upon the website you have is equivalent to liberals relying upon the Onion or PMSNBC as authoritative resources in debates with conservatives.
If I were Luircin, I wouldn't waste my time in addressing any quotes you pull from that website.
And here I thought Tim Staples was a poor Roman Catholic apologist....you've replaced him.
Now, go get that help.
So now you're claiming that Luther said Christ had sexual relations with the woman at the well, yet He had no sin?
Read up ahead to Luther's heresies about the Ten Commandments in the link I posted above.
Ya'll would never get out of the water....that is, if ya'll even practice immersion.
It's been 48 years since I left the catholic church, so I am not sure about immersion. They didn't do it then, but I always say, if Catholic doctrine be true, then drown me in the baptistry, so I can be forgiven, and go to Heaven. Those who think they are going to make it, by their good works, baptism and church membership, are going to be in for a shock, with a capital S.
I really hope in the real world you don’t have any serious responsibilities if this is a sample of your cognitive capabilities.
So now you’re claiming that Luther said Christ had sexual relations with the woman at the well, yet He had no sin?
***
If you’d actually read what I wrote, you’d know that’s not what I meant at all.
So you’ve obviously told a falsehood about reading what I wrote, considering that you cherry-picked my statement. You’re lying about me the same way you lie about Dr. Luther.
That’s a violation of the 8th commandment again, not to mention a violation of the 5th commandment in your hatred.
I ping my friends as witnesses as our Lord Jesus commanded us to do in Matthew 18.
No. The irony is that many non-Catholics cherry-pick Luther's beliefs, even if some of them were still Catholic beliefs:
6 Beautiful Quotes on Mary You Won’t Believe Are From Martin Luther
I’m reading what Luther said, not what you said.
First off, you err because there is no such thing as graduations of sin such as *venial* and *mortal*.
ALL sin is an affront to God and ALL sin results in condemnation.
Another area you err is that people need absolution of their sin to have it not counted against them.
God FORGIVES sin, freely and fully simply for the asking.
He promised us this in His word that the Holy Spirit inspired.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Go right to God. No need for Catholicism, priests, penance, purgatory, or any other religious nonsense.
It's free for the asking and freely given by God Himself.
Why don't you skip ahead in the link I provided and review Luther's opinion of the Ten Commandments?
I don’t worship Luther; I worship God.
I answered your three objections. You haven’t responded to any of my points other than to a: lie about and insult me, and b: cherry-pick my responses.
Time for me to use the office of the keys, ebb.
I ping the rest of you as my witnesses.
Your sin of hatred and all the sins that come from it, not the least of which is the sin of unrepentance of your hatred, has separated you from Christ AND Christ’s Church. If you should die before you repent of this sin, you will be condemned into eternal damnation.
You can forget about me addressing any more of your sin-filled hateful rants; I have no time for an unrepentant apostate.
Why don’t you skip ahead in the link I provided and review Luther’s opinion of the Ten Commandments?
***
I have no time for ebb tide, the unrepentant apostate.
That's about the extent of his debate skills.
ebb is what I would call a drive by Roman Catholic akin to the drive by media as coined by el Rushbo.
People are taken in by propaganda because they want to believe it or believe that it's true.
And the Internet abounds with such, keeping James Swan busy researching and correcting, though Luther's propensity to sometimes extreme hyperbole, and too often caustic language can be a problem.
Also, we have been given a new nature, a sinless perfect one.
2 Corinthians 5:17-21 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.
Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
And have been transferred into the kingdom of the Son God loves.
Colossians 1:13-14 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Our salvation is a done deal and God does not disown us when we sin.
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