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To: metmom; aMorePerfectUnion
If they are being honest about this they would acknowledge that the bread and wine NEVER change "literally" from what they started out as. It is a symbolic observance. The dogma of Transubstantiation didn't even get formally defined until the Fourth Council of the Lateran in 1215. The early church understood that the observance of the Lord's Supper was about participating with every other believer (who are also called the "one loaf/bread" by Paul) as a testimony of faith in Christ's sacrifice of His body and blood for our sins. His "real" presence was recognized as Jesus said wherever two or more are gathered in His name He is there with them.

Catholicism isn't satisfied by other Christian faith traditions that observe the Lord's Supper as they contend ONLY their priests are authorized to confect the "elements" and change them (transubstantiate) from what appears as bread and wine (and REMAINS that way) into the actual/literal/real flesh and blood of Jesus. That's their hook. "You can't get the "real" Jesus in you unless you come to us to get Him.", they assert. Yet we find no such teaching in the Scriptures and an examination of the writings of the early church leaders show this doctrine was not taught until centuries later (it "developed"). Jesus doesn't play such games. He said whoever BELIEVED in Him was what gave them eternal life - not those who literally ate and drank Him.

Isn't it curious how vociferously they will argue this point? Some come right out and state no one can be saved if they don't believe the same thing about this as they do yet close to half of Catholics in poll after poll don't accept the teaching either.

403 posted on 01/09/2018 7:40:04 PM PST by boatbums (The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation, but washes you upon the Rock of Ages.)
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To: boatbums; aMorePerfectUnion

It’s like when you describe an accident scene and use pictures.

You say, *This is my car, and this is the other guy’s car* about a pencil drawing.

Now, it’s clear to anyone with two functioning brain cells, that they are not real cars.

Catholics continue to ignore John 6:63 where Jesus says *the SPIRIT gives life, the the flesh is NO help at all*

And the fact that their interpretation renders Jesus a sinner by commanding people to break the law, thus making Him no longer eligible to be the spotless lamb of God. He would likewise have sinned at the Last Supper,with the same result.

And He would be contradicting the entire weight of Scripture, which PROVES that that literal interpretation is wrong.

And the fact that Jesus at the Last Supper called the cup *the fruit of the vine*, which He said HE would not drink again until in heaven.

So many fails on so many points.

And then WE get accused of *cherry picking* and building entire doctrines on ONE verse of Scripture.


422 posted on 01/09/2018 11:28:07 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
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