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To: Toad of Toad Hall

“you perceive the prayer of the Hail Mary to be praying TO the Mother of God and NOT a request for her intercession”

The “Hail Marys” are not addressed to God but to a spiritual entity called “Mary.”

The real Mary of the Bible, along with the apostles, would NEVER accept anyone bowing to any images in their supposed likeness. There are at least 3 cases in the Bible in which a human bowed toward an apostle or an angel. In each case the apostles and angels refused to accept this.

When Catholics bow toward images of Mary and other saints, address prayers toward them, and make offerings such as flowers and incense to them, they are acting in direct contradiction to the commands of God in order to keep a purely man-made tradition.

Acts 10:25-26
As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.”

Acts 14:11-15
Now when the people saw what Paul had done, they raised their voices, saying in the Lycaonian language, “The gods have come down to us in the likeness of men!” And Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul, Hermes, because he was the chief speaker. Then the priest of Zeus, whose temple was in front of their city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates, intending to sacrifice with the multitudes. But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this, they tore their clothes and ran in among the multitude, crying out and saying, “Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men with the same nature as you...”

Revelation 22:8-9
Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things. Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.”


19 posted on 11/24/2017 7:44:49 PM PST by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: unlearner
The “Hail Marys” are not addressed to God but to a spiritual entity called “Mary.”

Who do you think Catholics are asking Mary to pray to when we recite, "pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen"?

24 posted on 11/24/2017 7:53:08 PM PST by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: unlearner

Thank you so much for your explanation, and letting me know what you think and believe. I appreciate the conversation.

Where I disagree is where you are equate *prayer* and *worship*. They are not the same. Also, Catholics do not bow toward a statue of Mary or other statues. The genuflection is reserved as a gesture in the direction toward the Real Presence in the tabernacle. And the only bow is toward the Eucharist before receiving. Perhaps you have not been to a Catholic Mass?

The text of the Hail Mary is as follows:

Hail Mary, full of grace,
the Lord is with thee;
blessed art thou amongst women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

The first part comes from the Magnificat in Luke’s gospel and the second half is asking the Mother of God to intercede. Again, there is NO *worship*.


26 posted on 11/24/2017 7:58:58 PM PST by Toad of Toad Hall (nunquam minus solus quam cum solus)
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