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To: Ken Regis

**The flood waters in this type represents condemnation, not salvation (being sealed into the arc) and not the means to salvation (faith and trust in God’s Word).**

Peter said they were saved by water. It’s what took the sinful world away from Noah and his family.

The Israelites were saved by water. The Egyptian army was the curse of death and bondage. Water took that curse away.

“And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the Lord, which he will show to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever”. Ex. 14:13

**It is not the act of baptism which saves (“the removal of dirt from the flesh”), but what baptism signifies—the appeal to God for a good conscience.**

You are rewriting 1Peter 3:21. Look:

Your words: **It is not the act of baptism which saves**

God’s words: “The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us..”.

Your words: **(“the removal of dirt from the flesh”),**

God’s words: “(NOT the putting away of the filth of the flesh..”

Your words: **but what baptism signifies—the appeal to God for a good conscience.**

God’s words: “..but the answer of a good conscience toward God,)”

You see, when you are taught to believe that water baptism simply signifies something (like the unscriptural: outward sign of an inward cleaning), one has, at the least, downgraded the commands of the Lord and his apostles.

As such, one actually is trying to word Mark 16:16 this way:

“He that believe the, is saved, and should be baptized....”.

And Acts 2:38 this way:

“..Repent and receive the Holy Spirit to be saved, and be baptized....”.


91 posted on 09/03/2017 1:34:33 PM PDT by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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To: Zuriel
To be clear, I understand your position; however, I don’t agree with it. You believe that baptism confers grace ex opre operato (from the work that is worked). I Peter 3:20, 21 does not teach that and it does not teach that the act of baptism itself has saving power. Salvation comes about by faith (already amply supplied by multiple refs.) I believe that baptism represents the change that has already taken place for the believer.

Peter’s phrase, “an appeal to God for a clear conscience” tells me that God has given me a clear conscience, I have assurance that every one of my sins (past, present, and future) has already been forgiven (Eph 1:7), and I stand in a right relationship with God. For me, baptism is a symbol of what has already happened. That’s not what you believe.

Specifically, re. Acts 2:38 – Peter is obedient to Christ’s command in Matthew 28:19 and urges the people who repented and turned to the Lord for salvation to publicly and openly identify with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection through the baptismo (full immersion) – an act that put them in literal danger but the demonstration of their obedience to follow the imperitive demonstrated the power of God to many others and as a result, the Church grew.

Forgiveness precedes baptism (Acts 2:41). Sometimes faith alone is named as the one thing that is needed for salvation (Jn 3:16, Acts 16:31, Rom 10:9, Eph 2:8,9). Other times repentance alone is named (Lk 24:47, Acts 3:19, 5:31, 17:30, 2 Cor 7:10). Repentance includes a mind change that trusts God (i.e. faith).

Finally, you will not change my position on this. Your view is in error and not supported by a complete view of the subject. You hang on a few verses but the totality of scripture supports my position so you will not change my position on this.

I’m done. Good-bye.

106 posted on 09/03/2017 7:29:41 PM PDT by Ken Regis
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