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To: Fantasywriter

Ravenwolf, if you believe the Scriptures are God-breathed, then you must believe that words were chosen for a reason.


Other scholars say that adelphos is also used for cousin, uncle, nephew, or kinsmen.

I just have to go with what makes sense to me, and that is that Mary only had one child.

I get pretty leery when some one has to go into the word definition game to prove their point especially when they have to ignore so many other points.

For instance Jesus appointing John to care for Mary, if Mary had other children this would not have been the case.


837 posted on 08/19/2017 9:39:27 AM PDT by ravenwolf (If the Bible does not say it in plain words, please don`t preach it to me.)
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To: ravenwolf

Thank you for your reply. The reason people utilize Strong’s Concordance is because it is widely recognized as a dispositive source. The reason to look up a definition is to learn what a word means.

For example, if you or I grew up speaking English, we would know what the word,’brother,’ means. But if we didn’t grow up speaking Greek, we wouldn’t know what, ‘adelphos,’ means. The way to find out is to look the word up and study its meaning, its usage and its etymology.

There are two problems with translating, ‘adelphos,’ as cousin. First, no scholar outside of Catholicism acknowledges this ‘alternate,’ meaning. (I say this as a person who pursued the meaning and usage of, ‘adelphos,’ extensively a few years ago. More on that below.) Second, Greek has a word for cousin—and even differentiates between male and female cousins. Why would the word for brother be used to mean cousin, when there is a common and often-used Greek word that specifically means cousin?

Here is a little background that may prove useful. I studied Greek for two years, and retain some of my better study tools. In those two years, it was never mentioned that A, ‘adelphos,’ could mean anything other than brother, or B, that Greek lacked a word for cousin. In fact, we were impressed with the extreme precision of Koine Greek, and its fundamental characteristic of expressing meaning with clarity and accuracy.

Later, on the FR religion forum, I read that,’adelphos,’ is used to mean, ‘cousin,’ because the Greek lacked such a word. At first I just accepted that, odd as it sounded. Then one day I decided to research it.

Imagine my shock. Not only is there a Greek word for, ‘cousin,’ but it’s actually used in the NT. I was amazed.

I posted my findings...which were received with deafening silence. No one cared about it at all.

But I continued to ponder it. Ravenwolf, it comes down to this. Does the Holy Spirit desire to communicate clearly, or does He purposefully sow confusion? If the Holy Spirit had wanted to state that Jesus had cousins, that word was available. As soon as it was used, we would all know exactly what was meant. There would be simple clarity right there in the text.

But to bypass the word for, ‘cousin,’ and use the word which everyone except Catholics translates as, ‘brother,’ ... why? Just to mislead people? Just to create questions, ambiguity and confusion? God has never treated us that way. He is the One who created language, and He uses it to communicate, not to mislead.

As to why Jesus entrusted His mother to John, the answer may not be all that perplexing. John was there, as was Mary. There is no indication that Jesus’ brothers were present. If Jesus wanted His mother to be cared for by someone who loved Him enough to endure—with Mary—the shame and agony of watching Him die, who are we to question Him? Jesus had earlier said plainly, His mother and brothers are those who hear His words and observe them. How would this not make John more of a brother than mere genetics? Jesus was never impressed by genetics. When the Jews told Him they were descendants of Abraham, Jesus said God could make rocks/stones into descendants of Abraham. If, because John was the, “disciple whom He loved,” He wanted His mother to be cared for by Him, that is the Lord’s decision. It is anything but proof that He had no brothers.


838 posted on 08/19/2017 10:17:51 AM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Inernet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: ravenwolf
I just have to go with what makes sense to me, and that is that Mary only had one child.

Why would you think it makes sense in light of this?

Matthew 1:18-25 Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit. And her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly.

But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us). When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

Psalm69:8 I have become a stranger to my brothers, an alien to my mother's sons.

Matthew 1:24-25 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

Matthew 12:46-47 While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.”

Matthew 13:55 “Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?

Mark 6:2-3 And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, “Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands?”... “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?”

John 2:12 After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days.”

Acts 1:14 These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.

1 Corinthians 9:4-5 Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?

Galatians 1:19 But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother.

Strong's Concordance

http://biblehub.com/greek/80.htm

adelphos: a brother

Original Word: ἀδελφός, οῦ, ὁ

Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine

Transliteration: adelphos

Phonetic Spelling: (ad-el-fos')

Short Definition: a brother

Definition: a brother, member of the same religious community, especially a fellow-Christian.

Here is a link to the occurrences of the Greek word *adelphos*.

http://biblehub.com/greek/80.htm

The word *sister* (adelphe) in the Greek is the same.

http://biblehub.com/greek/79.htm

The word used is *brother* not *cousin*.

It can't mean a member of the same religious community in the context in which they occur, because then that would mean every man in Israel could be identified as Jesus' brother. So that would not identify Jesus as anyone in particular's brother.

It's not going to mean *brother in Christ* as that concept was not yet in place and the Jews, who knew Jesus as a Jew and knew His brothers as Jews, would not even begin to understand the new birth and what being in Christ meant.

They didn't even understand who JESUS was, much less being a *brother in Christ*.

The only definition left then, is to mean physical brother.

And it would not be *cousin*.

The word for *relative* that is used for Elizabeth is *suggenes*, not *adelphe*.

http://biblehub.com/greek/4773.htm

Strong's Concordance

suggenes: akin, a relative

Original Word: συγγενής, ές

Part of Speech: Adjective

Transliteration: suggenes

Phonetic Spelling: (soong-ghen-ace')

Short Definition: akin, a relative

Definition: akin to, related; subst: fellow countryman, kinsman.

855 posted on 08/19/2017 1:32:23 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
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