Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Just mythoughts

“John 3:13 explains what Christ is telling Nicodemus. And yes, John wrote born from ‘above’ not born ‘again’.”

The majority of English translations say “born again” rather than “born from above.”

The original Greek uses anóthen which can mean either.

All of the Greek manuscripts say the same thing.

The extant Aramaic translations have “men derish” which can also be translated either way. (I add this because there is a high possibility that Jesus had the conversation with Nicodemus in Aramaic.)

All of the early translations of this passage (such as Coptic, Ethiopic, Latin) defer to the meaning “born again.”

The Greek term is similar to saying something in English like “let’s take it from the top.” “From above” is correct. But so is “again.”

Sometimes words with multiple meanings are used because multiple meanings were intended.

The “birth” that Jesus was speaking of was new, spiritual, Heavenly, and distinct from the first biological one we all experience.

So I do not disagree with saying that this new birth is “from above.” It is. Jesus essentially says so in the remainder of the conversation. However, I can’t go so far as to agree with your position that “born again” is incorrect.

On the other issues you’ve addressed, I think I will contemplate them more. Thanks for the references you shared.

I do, however, want to say on the examples of Elijah and Moses, it is hard to assert anything conclusive about their appearance. Samuel was conjured up by a witch hired by Saul. And whether it was irregular for an actually deceased soul to appear, in that particular case he did. And his soul was recognizable to her it seems.

For Moses and Elijah I would be less certain as to whether or not their appearances were “soul bodies” of sorts. When Christ was crucified there were some saints whose bodies came to life, and they came out of their graves. I am operating under the assumption that these bodies were not experiencing the final resurrection in which we will receive incorruptible bodies like unto Christ’s body. So, it is my belief that they soon went back to sleep in their graves. Perhaps the same is true of Moses. And for Elijah, there is actually no indication that he ever died. So it is quite possible that the same means that carried him away from earth in the first place, also carried him to this mountain in his natural, fleshly body.

This is a considerable amount of speculation. But I am not asserting any doctrinal positions upon this. And it is my point in fact that it is a bit risky to do so. There is a lot of information which has not been disclosed to us in scripture.


113 posted on 07/03/2017 6:43:29 PM PDT by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 108 | View Replies ]


To: unlearner

John 3:13 explains why the word is born from above. Christ told Nicodemus that the first requirement to ‘see’ the kingdom of God was to be born from above. Christ did not say all that are born from above would ‘see’ the kingdom of God.

Again Hebrews 2:14 is not hard to understand. And Christ most certainly was born from Above..Luke describes in detail what took place at the ‘conception’ of Christ. It certainly was not His flesh embryo that John the Baptist reacted too upon Mary’s visit to Elizabeth.

Our Heavenly Father sent us the Word and as it is written some are given a spirit of slumber.


118 posted on 07/04/2017 6:02:07 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 113 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson