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To: ealgeone
You mean evangelical Protestantism and Christianity are not in agreement on this.

See how offensive that sounds? See how unnecessarily offensive your posts sound to us? Where in the Bible are you authorized to insult people to spread your "Gospel"? Do you realize how much damage you do to your own position when you say stuff like that?

Scripture says to give a reason for the hope that lies within you, but to do so with "gentleness" and "reverence". Perhaps you should consider obeying that injunctive.

Catholics fundamentally understand salvation as unmerited adoption into God's family, a right which was purchased for us, because obviously nobody could purchase that sort of thing for themselves. That's the truth, in contrast to your caricature.

Many Protestants seem to understand salvation as "penal substitution," which amounts to the acquittal of a criminal based on someone else having "done the time". (Because I do not go around caricaturing someone else's beliefs, I welcome corrections from the Protestants in the audience.)

The penal substitution view is not false, but it is incomplete. If you commit a crime and the President pardons you, you don't get to move into the White House with him, he doesn't include you in his will, and he doesn't start to call you his "son" or "daughter".

God does all of those things, which is why salvation is much more than just a pardon.

16 posted on 06/26/2017 5:44:33 AM PDT by Campion (Halten Sie sich unbedingt an die Lehre!)
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To: Campion
You mean evangelical Protestantism and Christianity are not in agreement on this.

Nope. I mean Christianity and Roman Catholicism are not in agreement on how one is saved...or even if one is even saved.

See how offensive that sounds? See how unnecessarily offensive your posts sound to us?

The truth often hurts but in nonetheless remains the truth. Mormons get upset when they are not called Christians for they aren't.

Where in the Bible are you authorized to insult people to spread your "Gospel"? Do you realize how much damage you do to your own position when you say stuff like that?

6I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed! 10For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ. Galatians 1:6-10 NASB

Catholics fundamentally understand salvation as unmerited adoption into God's family, a right which was purchased for us, because obviously nobody could purchase that sort of thing for themselves. That's the truth, in contrast to your caricature.

If Roman Catholics believe this then there is nothing the Roman Catholic can do to "earn" salvation. With what would you buy your salvation? What human work is somehow sufficient to attain salvation?

If there is nothing you can do to purchase your salvation then there is nothing you can do to earn or keep your salvation.

Roman Catholicism believes the salvation they did not purchase can be taken away or lost based on their efforts.

Ephesians 1:13-14 tells us the believer in Christ is sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise. There are no passages saying the believer is ever unsealed.

Many Protestants seem to understand salvation as "penal substitution," which amounts to the acquittal of a criminal based on someone else having "done the time". (Because I do not go around caricaturing someone else's beliefs, I welcome corrections from the Protestants in the audience.)

Christ's death on the Cross was a substitute for us. He paid the price for our sins. There is nothing we can do to atone for our sins other than believe Him at His promises of eternal life for those who believe in Him.

23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23 NASB

16Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. 17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 18Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 20Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 1 Corinthians 5:16-21 NASB

Roman Catholics do not hold to the view that His death cleanses us from ALL sins. The very notion of purgatory where we have to to get "cleaned up" shows this.

Further, the Roman Catholic believes, at least a good many do, the claims of the apparitions claiming to be Mary.

One of these false promises is that by wearing a piece of cloth you avoid the hell fire.

This shows a complete lack of faith in the promises of Jesus Christ.

The same can be said for those who believe the false promises made by the apparition to Saint Dominic regarding the Rosary among these are:

5)The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish.

9) I shall deliver from Purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary.

11) You shall obtain all you ask of me by the recitation of the Rosary.

You may not believe that but a whole lot of Roman Catholics do.

If you don't believe the promises or in wearing the scapular would you publicly denounce those as false teachings?

The penal substitution view is not false, but it is incomplete. If you commit a crime and the President pardons you, you don't get to move into the White House with him, he doesn't include you in his will, and he doesn't start to call you his "son" or "daughter".

But that is exactly what happens to the believer in Christ.

They are adopted into His family.

. 23And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. 24For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? 25But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it. Romans 8:23-25 NASB

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, Ephesians 1:3-5 NASB

1“Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2“In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3“If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. 4“And you know the way where I am going.” 5Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, how do we know the way?”

6Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

John 14:1-6 NASB

Will you trust Him, and only Him, at His word and become a follower of Christ?

19 posted on 06/26/2017 10:49:03 AM PDT by ealgeone (int)
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