Posted on 06/11/2017 10:27:59 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
Holy Scripture is a part of Sacred Tradition.
No, Sacred Tradition is subordinate to Holy Scripture.
Neither I nor the Apostle Paul are mistaken. If any teaching given to them was not included in the limits of Holy Writings, they are gone. And none since is given Holy Speech not already a part of Scripture.
Your desire to apply that citation today is not a genuine interpretation. Trying to break the Word with tradition is exactly what the Pharisees tried to do in Jesus' day, and is still being attempted.
Act 4-5 :31 And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.
They Had Everything in Common
32 Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common. 33 And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. 34 There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold 35 and laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. 36 Thus Joseph, who was also called by the apostles Barnabas (which means son of encouragement), a Levite, a native of Cyprus, 37 sold a field that belonged to him and brought the money and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
1 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, 2 and with his wife’s knowledge he kept back for himself some of the proceeds and brought only a part of it and laid it at the apostles’ feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? 4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man but to God.” 5 When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last. And great fear came upon all who heard of it. 6 The young men rose and wrapped him up and carried him out and buried him.
7 After an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 And Peter said to her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for so much.” And she said, “Yes, for so much.” 9 But Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” 10 Immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men came in they found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.
1 Cor 4:8 Already you have all you want! Already you have become rich! Without us you have become kings! And would that you did reign, so that we might share the rule with you! 9 For I think that God has exhibited us apostles as last of all, like men sentenced to death, because we have become a spectacle to the world, to angels, and to men. 10 We are fools for Christ’s sake, but you are wise in Christ. We are weak, but you are strong. You are held in honor, but we in disrepute. 11 ,To the present hour we hunger and thirst, we are poorly dressed and buffeted and homeless, 12 and we labor, working with our own hands. When reviled, we bless; when persecuted, we endure; 13 when slandered, we entreat. We have become, and are still, like the scum of the world, the refuse of all things.
Mammon has captured the church. The rich in the church are indifferent too the poor, people no longer die when they lie to Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit is not in their midst, the buildings no longer shake when they pray. The leaders of the church went hungry and dressed in rags. Mammon wasn’t God, Jesus was! Goats calling Jesus Lord fill the church.
Money has replaced God and his power.
Act 4-5 :31 And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.
They Had Everything in Common
32 Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common. 33 And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. 34 There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold 35 and laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. 36 Thus Joseph, who was also called by the apostles Barnabas (which means son of encouragement), a Levite, a native of Cyprus, 37 sold a field that belonged to him and brought the money and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
1 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, 2 and with his wife’s knowledge he kept back for himself some of the proceeds and brought only a part of it and laid it at the apostles’ feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? 4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man but to God.” 5 When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last. And great fear came upon all who heard of it. 6 The young men rose and wrapped him up and carried him out and buried him.
7 After an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 And Peter said to her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for so much.” And she said, “Yes, for so much.” 9 But Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” 10 Immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men came in they found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.
1 Cor 4:8 Already you have all you want! Already you have become rich! Without us you have become kings! And would that you did reign, so that we might share the rule with you! 9 For I think that God has exhibited us apostles as last of all, like men sentenced to death, because we have become a spectacle to the world, to angels, and to men. 10 We are fools for Christ’s sake, but you are wise in Christ. We are weak, but you are strong. You are held in honor, but we in disrepute. 11 ,To the present hour we hunger and thirst, we are poorly dressed and buffeted and homeless, 12 and we labor, working with our own hands. When reviled, we bless; when persecuted, we endure; 13 when slandered, we entreat. We have become, and are still, like the scum of the world, the refuse of all things.
Mammon has captured the church. The rich in the church are indifferent too the poor, people no longer die when they lie to Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit is not in their midst, the buildings no longer shake when they pray. The leaders of the church went hungry and dressed in rags. Mammon wasn’t God, Jesus was! Goats calling Jesus Lord fill the church.
Money has replaced God and his power.
The ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC Catholic Church!
If it’s in the Bible, the Holy Spirit inspired it.
Those were cousins, close relatives.
Don’t you just love it when non-Catholics are trying to tell us what Catholics believe?
For all practical purposes, you’re right. Unfortunately. The “grab bag” approach to Scripture leads to lots of error and invention of “tradition, which then proceeds to delude under imprimatur of “truth”.
Then why does the Bible say Brothers and Sisters?
When it says that Jesus is the son of Mary and mentions Brothers in the same sentence and mentions them by name, how is that not Brothers and then not Sisters in the next sentence?? And what about the Context, that the Jews we upset were him and scorning him through them?
The verse makes no sense with these being cousins.
It's doctrine driving hermeneutics instead of the other way around.
Its logically incoherent for Sacred Tradition to be “subordinate” the Sacred Scripture, since Scripture is itself *part* of Sacred Tradition. It is part of the whole. The whole is greater than the part.
And it contradicts the words of Scripture. The Apostle Paul himself, as I quoted in my previous comment, said we must cling to the tradition, whether we received it from one of his letters or by word of mouth.
I don’t think your instruction on the subject of tradition is as reliable as Paul’s.
Does your pastor ever start a sermon with “Dear Brothers and Sisters?”
Mine does.
Does that mean they are all related to you or to me? No, t’s just a figure of speech.
Since you manifest an active interest in these matters, I think you could profit from some basic reading in Sacred Tradition.
I recommend authors George Agius, James Mackey, and Jaroslav Peliken. I know you can get Agius’ book on Catholic Tradition for under $10, including shipping, from Amazon used books.
These authors also have articles online. You can google
CATHOLIC BIBLE TRADITION
and
CATHOLIC VOYAGER TRADITION
and find some good, much briefer, treatments.
I answered this once in some detail here on the FR Religion Forum, but can’t get back to pick up the link on my Kindle. If I EVER (sigh) get my good old desktop computer back, I’ll be able to get you that link.
Actually, with a little persistence, you could find that, *I think*, by googling
“Mrs Don-o” tradition liturgy sacraments realism
It’s most constructive, I find, to make this conscious distinction between ASK and TELL:
ASK what the other person believes.
TELL what you believe.
Do not TELL the other person what he/she believes, or you’ll usually make a hash of it. I’ve done that too often myself!
Discussions relying heavily on YOU ‘informing’ the OTHER GUY in the dialog what HE believes, usually end up being like a puppy chasing his own tail -— and thinking he’s winning the race!
Wise words.
If tradition and Scripture are not in agreement, Scripture wins out. Every time.
Poorly written sentence on my part. I agree the Spirit breathed out Scripture. This can be clearly seen by spending time in it and witnessing the Divine structure, depth and beauty. No human being, Shakespeare included, is capable of such
My point was we can mangle that Word by mishandling it, turning our contortions into “tradition”.
“Trying to break the Word with tradition is exactly what the Pharisees tried to do in Jesus’ day, and is still being attempted.”
Amen.
IMO, that’s just being willingly ignorant, by ignoring the context in order to keep vain tradition.
Those folks in Nazareth had probably known Jesus for as much 25 yrs. He begins his ministry. They are astonished that he has so much wisdom, and is so much different than....
....his cousins????
(I have to admit that I haven’t been praying much for you folks that believe such man-made doctrine. That needs to change. Thank God for conviction.)
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