Posted on 05/31/2017 1:41:09 PM PDT by ealgeone
Question: "Can a Christian lose salvation?"
Answer: First, the term Christian must be defined. A “Christian” is not a person who has said a prayer or walked down an aisle or been raised in a Christian family. While each of these things can be a part of the Christian experience, they are not what makes a Christian. A Christian is a person who has fully trusted in Jesus Christ as the only Savior and therefore possesses the Holy Spirit (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8–9).
So, with this definition in mind, can a Christian lose salvation? It’s a crucially important question. Perhaps the best way to answer it is to examine what the Bible says occurs at salvation and to study what losing salvation would entail:
A Christian is a new creation. “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” (2 Corinthians 5:17). A Christian is not simply an “improved” version of a person; a Christian is an entirely new creature. He is “in Christ.” For a Christian to lose salvation, the new creation would have to be destroyed.
A Christian is redeemed. “For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:18–19). The word redeemed refers to a purchase being made, a price being paid. We were purchased at the cost of Christ’s death. For a Christian to lose salvation, God Himself would have to revoke His purchase of the individual for whom He paid with the precious blood of Christ.
A Christian is justified. “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). To justify is to declare righteous. All those who receive Jesus as Savior are “declared righteous” by God. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and “un-declare” what He had previously declared. Those absolved of guilt would have to be tried again and found guilty. God would have to reverse the sentence handed down from the divine bench.
A Christian is promised eternal life. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). Eternal life is the promise of spending forever in heaven with God. God promises, “Believe and you will have eternal life.” For a Christian to lose salvation, eternal life would have to be redefined. The Christian is promised to live forever. Does eternal not mean “eternal”?
A Christian is marked by God and sealed by the Spirit. “You also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory” (Ephesians 1:13–14). At the moment of faith, the new Christian is marked and sealed with the Spirit, who was promised to act as a deposit to guarantee the heavenly inheritance. The end result is that God’s glory is praised. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to erase the mark, withdraw the Spirit, cancel the deposit, break His promise, revoke the guarantee, keep the inheritance, forego the praise, and lessen His glory.
A Christian is guaranteed glorification. “Those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified” (Romans 8:30). According to Romans 5:1, justification is ours at the moment of faith. According to Romans 8:30, glorification comes with justification. All those whom God justifies are promised to be glorified. This promise will be fulfilled when Christians receive their perfect resurrection bodies in heaven. If a Christian can lose salvation, then Romans 8:30 is in error, because God could not guarantee glorification for all those whom He predestines, calls, and justifies.
A Christian cannot lose salvation. Most, if not all, of what the Bible says happens to us when we receive Christ would be invalidated if salvation could be lost. Salvation is the gift of God, and God’s gifts are “irrevocable” (Romans 11:29). A Christian cannot be un-newly created. The redeemed cannot be unpurchased. Eternal life cannot be temporary. God cannot renege on His Word. Scripture says that God cannot lie (Titus 1:2).
Two common objections to the belief that a Christian cannot lose salvation concern these experiential issues: 1) What about Christians who live in a sinful, unrepentant lifestyle? 2) What about Christians who reject the faith and deny Christ? The problem with these objections is the assumption that everyone who calls himself a “Christian” has actually been born again. The Bible declares that a true Christian will not live a state of continual, unrepentant sin (1 John 3:6). The Bible also says that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he was never truly a Christian (1 John 2:19). He may have been religious, he may have put on a good show, but he was never born again by the power of God. “By their fruit you will recognize them” (Matthew 7:16). The redeemed of God belong “to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God” (Romans 7:4).
Nothing can separate a child of God from the Father’s love (Romans 8:38–39). Nothing can remove a Christian from God’s hand (John 10:28–29). God guarantees eternal life and maintains the salvation He has given us. The Good Shepherd searches for the lost sheep, and, “when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home” (Luke 15:5–6). The lamb is found, and the Shepherd gladly bears the burden; our Lord takes full responsibility for bringing the lost one safely home.
Jude 24–25 further emphasizes the goodness and faithfulness of our Savior: “To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy—to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.”
Throw away your "statues" of Mary.
Throw away your rosary.
Throw away your scapular and/or miraculous medal.
Pray only to God...not Mary...not the saints. Only to God. Do not cite the rosary or any other marian prayer.
Will you accept the challenge?
As understood by Roman Catholicism which we've seen are in contradiction of the New Testament.
| John O' Brien, Roman Catholic Priest in the Faith of Millions. | Hebrews 9:24-28 | Hebrews 10:11-13 |
| When the priest pronounces the tremendous words of consecration, he reaches up into the heavens, brings Christ down from His throne, and places Him upon our altar to be offered up again as the Victim for the sins of man. It is a power greater than that of monarchs and emperors: it is greater than that of saints and angels, greater than that of Seraphim and Cherubim. Indeed it is greater even than the power of the Virgin Mary. While the Blessed Virgin was the human agency by which Christ became incarnate a single time, the priest brings Christ down from heaven, and renders Him present on our altar as the eternal Victim for the sins of man—not once but a thousand times! The priest speaks and lo! Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows His head in humble obedience to the priest’s command. | 24For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. 26Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, 28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. | Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, 13waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. 14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. |
Your mind is already made up and your opinion is more important to you than the Truth.
Nope.
The texts regarding the Lord's Supper make clear the purpose of the Supper.
"Do this in memory of Me."
There's no apostasy involved.
If, as Catholics claim, they don't worship Mary...what are you losing?
You would be praying straight to God...is that somehow insufficient?
Yeah, I was thinking along those lines.
Moslems think they’re praying straight to “God”. So do the Jews.
Is that sufficient for you?
We do celebrate the Mass all over the world each day in a non bloody sacrifice to Jesus in His Memory. Jesus gave us His Body and Blood for our salvation.
The devil would like to destroy the Mass, but he will not be able to.
Muslims pray to Allah...who is not Jehovah.
Is that sufficient for you?
2 He said to them, “When you pray, say: “ ‘Father,hallowed be your name, your kingdom come. Luke 11:2
9 “This, then, is how you should pray: “ ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, Matthew 6:9
Let your requests be made known to God...Phil 4:6
14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 1 John 5:14
12 Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. Jer 29:11
6 I call on you, my God, for you will answer me; turn your ear to me and hear my prayer. Psalm 17:6
18 The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth. Psalm 145:18
The Christian knows Who they are praying to.
Again I'll ask...will you accept the challenge?
Absolutely I can.
Exodus 20:4-6 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
The command is against bowing down before images. Bowing down in front of an image, especially when one is praying to it, is something that can be objectively observed.
It's not an opinion and it's not a judgment call.
Nor does God refer to intention in the second commandment. The second commandment addresses actions.
Therefore if the actions violate the commandment, it's a sin.
You cannot refute the statements of a RCC priest that are in conflict with Hebrews.
So you are God?
Traditional Catholics do not celebrate the Mass. They offer the Holy Mass as a sacrifice to God the Father, not as a celebration.
Jesus gave gives us His Body and Blood for our salvation at each and every sacrifice of the Holy Mass.
Says the Catholic.
Now THAT'S funny coming from you.
So, I'll ask too. Will you take up the God alone challenge.
Pray to God the Father alone, not to any saints, not to Mary, not to any angels.
Only to the Father as Jesus taught us.
Will you take all the time and energy that gets devoted to Mary and others and focus it on Jesus?
Psst, call no man father.
Where did Jesus teach us to pray to anyone but the Father?
How is praying as Jesus taught *apostatizing?
**“People who oppose religious statuary forget about the many passages where the Lord commands the making of statues.**
Many??
The ark was kept behind a curtain. And even then the focus was a blank space, which even the cheribims faced.
The brazen serpent was destroyed because it was turned into a form of idol worship.
I guess I need more information on the many others.
The early church, as shown in Acts, repeatedly shows conversion of souls without partaking of the Lord’s supper. The mention of breaking bread is maybe twice iirc.
The epistles has only a couple of brief references, one being the fact that the members were turning it into a full fledged supper. While that was wrong, I don’t think it would have evolved into that if they believed that they were eating the actual flesh and blood of Christ.
Even Jesus Christ, after taking the cup, and giving thanks, gave it to his disciples, and said, “Drink ye all of it. For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.” Matt. 26:27-29
Is the Lord going to drink his blood in heaven? I don’t think so. This scriptures show he kept his word, with no mention of him drinking wine when eating with his disciples after his resurrection.
As far as the accounts of “bleeding” wafers, whether they be rigged cheap magician tricks or supernatural, keep in mind that Satan is transformed into an angel of light. The original, the slickest deceiver.
**God’s Peace be with you.**
Thank you! And with you as well!
That's nowhere near an answer. It's a deflection and a rabbit trail, but it's not an answer.
What's the big deal that Catholics balk at prayingh to the Father as Jesus commanded?
Luke 11:1-13 Now Jesus was praying in a certain place, and when he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, as John taught his disciples.” And he said to them, “When you pray, say:
“Father, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come. Give us each day our daily bread, and forgive us our sins, for we ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation.”
And he said to them, “Which of you who has a friend will go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves, for a friend of mine has arrived on a journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; and he will answer from within, ‘Do not bother me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed. I cannot get up and give you anything’? I tell you, though he will not get up and give him anything because he is his friend, yet because of his impudence he will rise and give him whatever he needs.
And I tell you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will instead of a fish give him a serpent; or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”
Don't y'all believe that God will answer as Jesus promised?
Then where does the blood come from that you are supposed to be eating?
You do realize, don't you that without the shedding of blood, there is NO forgiveness of sins?
A non-bloody sacrifice is a useless one as it provides no atonement.
No, and I don’t need to be to see what is going on.
And it’s not my judgment call, it’s God’s and He has already passed judgment on the bowing down.
He forbade it and disobeying a command of God is sin.
Please explain why we do not celebrate?
From USCCB: http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/upload/celebrating-the-lords-day.pdf
Celebrating the Lord’s Day
O
n Sunday, we gather as the Body of Christ to
celebrate the Lord’s Day, the day of Christ’s
Resurrection:
As “the fi rst day of the week” (Mk 16:2) it recalls
the fi rst creation; and as the “eighth day,” which
follows the sabbath, it symbolizes the new creation
ushered in by the Resurrection of Christ. Th us,
it has become for Christians the fi rst of all days
and of all feasts. It is the
day of the Lord
in which
he with his Passover fulfi lled the spiritual truth of
the Jewish Sabbath and proclaimed man’s eternal
rest in God. (
Compendium of the Catechism of the
Catholic Church
, no. 452)
Th e Scriptures tell us that Jesus rose on the fi rst day
of the week—the day following the Jewish Sabbath.
Shortly after daybreak, the women found the tomb
empty and Jesus risen from the dead. Jesus’ death and
Resurrection opened for us the doors of salvation. Shar-
ing in Jesus’ death in Baptism, we hope to share in his
Resurrection. We become a new creation in Christ. It is
that new creation which we celebrate on Sunday:
Th is is the day the Lord has made;
let us rejoice in it and be glad. (Ps 118:24)
Each Sunday is a “little Easter”—a celebration of the
central mysteries of our faith.
His last words on the cross as recorded by John: Τετέλεσται...it is finished.
There is no more sacrifice.
24For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
25nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own.
26Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
Hebrews 9:24-28 NASB
11Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, Hebrews 10:11 NASB
The Roman Catholic Mass is in direct contradiction of the New Testament.
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