Question: "Can a Christian lose salvation?"

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[Iscool]

The Catholic Church is the Body of Christ made up of all baptized members.

The Catholic Church may be the body of A christ, but it's clear it is not the body of Christians, baptised or not, that make up the church of the scriptures...

[ealgeone]

If you can lose salvation....how do you know you've lost it?

How do you get it back? Starting to sound like the RCC position.

[metmom]

By referring to these people as their spiritual sons and spiritual children, Peter, Paul, and John imply their own roles as spiritual fathers. Since the Bible frequently speaks of this spiritual fatherhood, we Catholics acknowledge it and follow the custom of the apostles by calling priests “father.”

It wasn't a custom of the apostles. There's no record in Scripture of Paul or Peter being called *Father Paul* or *Father Peter* or calling ANYONE *Father _______*.

All Catholics follow is the custom of their your church. Who they don't follow is Jesus because they are NOT obeying Him.

[metmom]

I continue to accept 2000 years of Sacred tradition passed down to us by Christ, the Apostles and their successors.

Just what are those traditions Paul was referring to that he handed down that we are to keep that were not included in Scripture?

How do you know?

How do you know they’re from the apostles, Paul in particular?

How do you know they’ve been passed down faithfully?

Show us where Paul says that tradition trumps Scripture.

What “oral tradition” do you keep that is not found in scripture but that you can prove the apostles taught?

What is your source for verifying all of the above?

Please provide the sources for verification purposes.

[metmom]

I continue to accept 2000 years of Sacred tradition passed down to us by Christ, the Apostles and their successors.

You'd do better to follow Jesus and 2,000 years of WRITTEN Scripture, that never changes and can be verified by going to the oldest manuscripts in the Hebrew for the OT or Greek in the NT.

[metmom]

According to that passage in Hebrews, you can’t get it back.

Salvation is a one shot deal.

Blow it once and yer toast.

[boatbums]

True; but we ARE taught; in WAY too many venues; that.. ... we are KEPT because we live "Godly" lives, behave or do good works.

Little do they realize that whether one thinks works save them or they think works keep them saved, it's the same thing. Salvation of our souls/us ultimately happens when we die. So, believing that we are saved by grace through faith and not by our works (a very Scriptural view), we know that what we are saved from - eternal damnation - and saved TO is being in heaven in the presence of our Lord and Savior for eternity. If our works keep us saved it's the same as saying we are saved BY our works.

[Zuriel]

I think that, even more than taking note of being spewed out of His mouth, we need to consider what becomes of those that do not overcome in the ‘seven churches’.

Overcomers in ‘Ephesus’ are given to eat of the fruit of the tree of life.
Those that don’t overcome get what?

Overcomers in ‘Smyrna’ will not be hurt of the second death.
Those that don’t overcome face the big hurt?

And so on, etc.

The parable of the sower shows seed dying, and new life beginning. Some in the new life don’t endure. It’s serious business, isn’t it?

[ealgeone]

Didn't John define those who've overcome the world as those having faith in Christ?

1Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4For whatever is born of God the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? 1 John 5:1-5 NASB

[Elsie]

For your information, Jesus repeated several times and emphasized...

He did indeed!

 

 

So by repetition alone we have Jesus talking to blind snakes that have large appetites!

 

 

Matthew 23

 

  1.  Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
  2.  "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
  3.  So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
  4.  They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
  5.  "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries  wide and the tassels on their garments long;
  6.  they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
  7.  they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them `Rabbi.'
  8.  "But you are not to be called `Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
  9.  And do not call anyone on earth `father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
 10.  Nor are you to be called `teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
 11.  The greatest among you will be your servant.
 12.  For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
 13.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 
 14.  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 
 15.   "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. 
 16.  "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
 17.  You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
 18.  You also say, `If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
 19.  You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
 20.  Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
 21.  And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
 22.  And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
 23.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
 24.  You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
 25.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
 26.  Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
 27.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!  You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
 28.  In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
 29.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
 30.  And you say, `If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
 31.  So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
 32.  Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
 33.  "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
 34.  Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
 35.  And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
 36.  I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
 37.  "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
 38.  Look, your house is left to you desolate.
 39.  For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "

 

[Elsie]

The teaching of the Catholic church is that all salvation comes from Christ the head through the Church which is his body:

Of COURSE it is!!!

[Elsie]

The teaching of the Catholic church is that all salvation comes from Christ the head through the Church which is his body:

Oh?

---

 

 1 Corinthians 12:12-31 

¹² Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. ¹³ For we were all baptized by^[c] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. ¹⁴ Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.

¹⁵ Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body . ¹⁶ And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body ,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. ¹⁷ If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? ¹⁸ But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. ¹⁹ If they were all one part, where would the body be? ²⁰ As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

²¹ The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” ²² On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, ²³ and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, ²⁴ while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, ²⁵ so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. ²⁶ If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

²⁷ Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. ²⁸ And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. ²⁹ Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? ³⁰ Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues^[d]? Do all interpret? ³¹ Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.

 

 

Funny; St. Paul never mentioned the word CHURCH here.

 

But; if verse 27 is TRUE, how then can the RCC give it's members Christ's BODY to eat at mass?

 

 

 

[Elsie]

While driving the point; it seems the target is made of Jello® and nails do not get much gripping power in it.

[Elsie]

Where TWO or three are gathered...

[Elsie]

. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches.

Indeed it does!

---

 

Matthew 23

 

  1.  Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
  2.  "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
  3.  So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
  4.  They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
  5.  "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries  wide and the tassels on their garments long;
  6.  they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
  7.  they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them `Rabbi.'
  8.  "But you are not to be called `Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
  9.  And do not call anyone on earth `father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
 10.  Nor are you to be called `teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
 11.  The greatest among you will be your servant.

 

 

 

[Elsie]

Jesus was talking about addressing men by those titles.

I just READ that!

Somewhere...

[Elsie]

It's not Holy Spirit inspired Scripture penned by one of the apostles, therefore they are meaningless.

Why do you HATE what Mary has taught us during her many visitations?

--Catholic_Wannabe_Dude(Hail Mary!!)

[Elsie]

I would suggest to err on the side of caution!

[Elsie]

The people this was spoken to potentially could have gone thru the Great Tribulation...

Huh?

[Elsie]

However, the word used for meat does not mean meat...It means food...And that is significant because the bible also says he is a loaf of bread (rye?)...

Our FR Catholics have had it TOLD to them hundreds; perhaps THOUSANDS; of times:

This IS my body...

It is securely nailed into their brains as FACT.

It'll take a supreme act of GOD to loosen this inaccurate data from whatever cranial synapses that it has fused itself to.

---

I believe it.