Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Arthur McGowan

Ah, c'mom man. You knew what I was talking about, didn't you?

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/marianism

Even among official papal encyclical the term 'cult of Mary' has been used, although in neutral sense, and while that cult within Roman Catholicism was being provided acknowledgement/allowance/justification for, at the same time. Must I go dig that out for proof? There is even one entitled "Marialis Cultus" (which could be translated 'Marian devotion'). Will you recall that on your own -- or be willing to take my word for it? In another encyclical, I forget which one precisely, in English translation at Vatican web pages for it, the term "cult of Mary" is used quite directly.

Ah..so you did know what I was talking about. You offered me this;

Which is Tim Staples book.

No thanks, much of that's already been well enough refuted, portions of it, even on this forum. If there was anything much new, or else not commonly enough argued here on these pages, and yet elsewhere too-- could you single that out, and bring that precise aspect for discussion?

If you desire to make an argument one way or another, then make one. Don't send me to Amazon.com unless you'd be willing to go there yourself to purchase what I may send you to go purchase. Fair enough?

Yet the real point I was making, is that among Roman Catholic scholars on the highest levels, it has been frequently admitted that most all of the Mariology serving as basis for Marionism did not come from Scripture directly, and was for the most part unknown/not mentioned within the earliest centuries (the first few) of the Christian church.

Instead, it arose, and in it's earliest times of doctrinal development found support from an array of Speeches, letters, articles, hints from “high places,” which you'd gone on to say and such like are immaterial.

Staples's book is along lines of after-the-fact imposition upon the texts things which the earliest church did not see -- for they never wrote about them, well, not until the pseudographical Protoevangelium of James (and a couple of other lesser, even worse non-apostolic NT apocryphal writings) according to Origen, first introduced the idea of perpetual virginity of Mary.

Prior to that time Mary would be referred to as the Virgin, no doubt, but never as the Ever Virgin. That marks the beginnings of various aspects of Marionism (which encompasses considerations far beyond Mary alleged to be "ever", perpetual virgin) which grew in popular support until portion such as the alleged Ascension, and then later the doctrine of Immaculate Conception was finally officially acquiesced to, while stating it was the "sense of the Church" rather than having been able to point to any truly apostolic source or even traceable to apostolic source, as in so-and-so said this and that regarding her that was not in realms of Speeches, letters, articles, hints from “high places,” coming from those among the church only in later centuries, most particularly from middling late in the 4th century -- and then in increasing frequency, from that time on.

Surely you knew about such things?

For sake of anyone else possibly reading this, an easier link (than previously supplied) for info about the Protoevangelium of James (also known as Infancy Gospel of James, and more simply; Gospel of James, not to be confused with the NT epistle James.

Informed, critical discussion of Tim Staples book by Jason Engwer; Tim Staples' Book About Mary

Another, again from Engwer regarding similar RC Marionist apologetics; http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2007/03/perpetual-virginity-of-mary.html and More Early Opponents Of Mary's Perpetual Virginity.

In light of readily available information concerning stages of doctrinal development of Marionology (and history of Marionism) as could be easily enough grasped even for those considering themselves sure enough regarding PVM, when it comes to yet further Marian dogma the story-line is yet more problematic, being as the additional elements are that much yet further removed from original Apostolic sources by multiple centuries' time.

69 posted on 05/28/2017 8:57:53 AM PDT by BlueDragon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies ]


To: BlueDragon

All you do is cut and paste globs of text telling me that various Protestants reject the Church’s Marian dogmas.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZ...


72 posted on 05/28/2017 2:14:43 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan (https://youtu.be/IYUYya6bPGw)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson